Mixing Befuddlement

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staticmigration

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Last time i posted a query on here was a kinda 'wanna get the gist of everything in advance' set of questions?

Now i'm preparing to incurre cranial implosion for my first tentative mixes.

Now heres the conundrum. I was told that its best to put effects on your tracks after you've recorded them during the mixing.

However if this is the case then how can i add touches of chorus and reverb etc.. when mixing down without applying the effects to everything.

Unless i have to re-record each track with effects before a final mix with 'bells on'?? In which case how would i go about adding outboard effects onto each track without wiping or ruining it etc..
I know i can use the effects send and return bus but keeping the settings individual for each track, most confusing...

Or do i just have the patois and idea about mixing wrong all together.

Enlighten me.... again, please?

Cheers
 
Assuming you "tracked" when you recorded (i.e. recorded each instrument to a different track), you'll probably want to apply "insert" effects for each track individually. Not knowing your setup makes it difficult to be more specific.

Are you recording into a computer, digital workstation, ADAT, reel-to-reel?
 
Umm that would help

Sorry guess knowing a little more does kinda help.

I have tracked all my instruments so, recording via mixer and a Delta 1010 onto a Mac running Logic Audio. The mixer has 20 channels and 2+2 dedicated bus, no actual dedicated outs for each channels but each has the usual inserts for effects etc.. if it helps any more its a Behringer MX2004A.

Ahh and another thing if i want to insert effects on each track indivudalkly as you say, how am i gonna manage that exactly without having a dedicated unit for each track or am i missing the obvious?

So far i have 10 tracks worth of material (live drums etc..) so where next....

Thanks is most appreciated!
 
If I've understood your recording setup correctly, I'd be looking at applying the effects on the Mac using software plug-ins.
 
Yup. You don't want to insert effects with your outboard mixer, you want to insert them with Logic's mixer (using Logic's plug-in effects).
 
Getting there

OK cheers thats cool, i kind of had that in mind but just confusing the issue by thinking of all options.

But... isn't compression software supposed to be shite, so therefore how would i add hardware compression to each individual track or, is compression only really utilised on a final mix or master?

I may even be asking the impossible here of course, just as a matter of query how do large studios with bottomless pockets do it?

Cheers guys!!
 
I believe there are some highly regarded software compressors (Renaissance Waves?), but none that compare yet with the top level hardware versions. For homereccers there are useable software compressors - the FASoft compressor, or Blueline. I suppose you have to try them out and see what you think. Maybe Logic Audio includes a compressor that is okay, I don't know. Compression can be used on all tracks, some tracks, no tracks, on the whole mix or not at all. Most commonly it's used on vocals, bass and the final mix. It's a tool which you have to develop the experience to know when to use. I'm giving myself a decade, starting now.
 
Software Compression

First off, though I've never actually heard a $10k hardware compressor in action, I'm sure that Atwork's comments are right-on. There probably aren't any software compressors that will keep up with and old Fairchild compressor, to a highly-trained ear. That said, Waves' Renaissance Compressor sounds really nice, if you've got the money. But let me point you down a different route (as a user of Logic Audio Platinum, who doesn't have highly-trained ears.)

Assuming you have Logic Silver or better, you get the Silver Compressor. Further assuming that when you "tracked" each instrument, you recorded each to its own "track" in Logic, so it is now its own "object" (Logic's term for them.) For the record, these cheap software compressors are my favorite for kick drum. If you really start to abuse them (5:1 ratio, hard knee, -30dB threshold), they develop a kind of "click" when they first start to compress. If you do this to a kick, you get that same sound you would get if you mic'd the beater, only it's free and you save CPU overhead! Scoop out the mids, dump the way-lows (to make room for the bass guit.) and cut the very-highs (use the little high-pass, low-pass, and parametric eq's on the Logic channel strip, they're very processor-friendly), and you'll have a good clean kick sound with lots of low-end thump, perfect for heavy-metal. Back off the threshold for a more natural sound if that's what you want. That same compressor (and similar EQ) will also work for the bass guitar.

For snare and voice, the Waves compressor is much "nicer." It won't make that nasty "click" and all those other artifacts. But what the heck! You've got Logic, play with it! I'm still turning out less-than-amazing mixes, but just keep trying. Also, I might be able to help more if you can tell me what instruments you've recorded and what style of music you're trying to emulate.


Oh yeah, and I'm a total neophyte to all this, so I will humbly accept any corrections, addenda, or flat-out flames if I've said something stupid. I don't have a million-dollar mastering suite to hear all my mistakes, but I listened on a lot of different systems, and my mixes have stood up better with each mix I've made, and I've been using this trick for about four mixes now.

Oops, and one other thing - my mixing technique has gotten more conservative and sparse as my mic'ing technique has improved. Mr. Ed Rey (aka sonusman) is a firm advocate of the "make it sound how you want it without any effect/eq" theory. When I first heard him say this (over a year ago now, I've been lurking for a while :) ), I wanted to pick a fight with him and say, "you can fix anything in the mix, just eq and compress and reverb and chorus it enough." Then I actually tried to DO that. Maybe Bob Clearmountain, with $10million in gear can do that, but you and me, with a $600 software package and untrained ears, probably can't. The better the originally recorded signal, the better the final mix. There will have to be practical limits to this, since we can't afford to track everything through Manley, Neve, etc. gear. So there will be practical limits to the sound we can get. But learning to work with what you've got is the essence of home-recording. Just keep at it, keep listening, and have fun!!!
 
In Logic, right click on the empty rectangle boxes above the faders on the mixer screen. An effects menu should pop up and let you add the effects for that channel.

If you want to use the same effect for multiple channels then assign the output of those channels to a bus and put the effect on the bus only with 100% wet mix. Then bring up the bus to control the overall effects level and use the individual bus sends on the tracks to control how much of that instrument is sent to the effect.

The Logic Compression is passable, the reverbs are ok for small rooms but sound horrible for large halls. The delays arent too bad.

If you want to process externally you can route a signal to be sent from your sound card - into the effects unit- and back into Logic.
 
Righto

Cheers guys most helpful.

Most of this i have yet to actually give a burn to i've benn more twiddling knobs an trying out different routings etc..

Tex I had a feeling thats what i was gonna have to do, but its cool to have some definately tell you rather than speculate yourself. Mind this can produce some interesting results. Except that in your theory i assume there is no need to route it through a mixer just change the monitor outputs to the soundcard instead of the mixer?

Johnboy cheers for that advice i shall see what i come out with. I am actually trying to produce some chilled slowed heavy stuff like Neurosis, but, we'll see how it comes out you never know, sounds ok, and i mean only ok so far.

Time to go twiddle some knobs and stuff. Can't think i need ask anything more for now, cleared up all my nagging doubts nicely thanks.

Cheers!
 
Mr. Migration, I would suggest that you experiment with the software effects you have available to you. As Mr. Roadkill described, click on one of the blank boxes above the channel fader of the track you'd like to compress (for example) and drag down the menu to a compressor (or what you will). Having selected an effect, double click to open its interface window and while listening to playback, twiddle with the parameter buttons and faders until you get the sound you want. No slight intended, but this is how I learn.

I love Logic and will probably cling to it till the bitter end.

True, software effects have yet to catch up to the better high end outboard gear, but I don't own any of that. My best compressor is the FMR RNC, and I'm not routing a track out of my computer for a trip through it when I've got the Waves right there in the machine.

You may already be aware, but the time-based effects (reverb, chorus, delay etc.) are really processor-hungry. Depending on how powerful your Mac is, you can only run so many of them. To use them efficiently, place them on the aux busses rather than on each track. Then use the aux sends on each channel to apply some measure of each effect desired. I apologize if this is old news. A trip through the manual probably told you that already.

Please write back and share your results with us, and happy recording!
-kent
 
"For homereccers there are useable software compressors - the FASoft compressor, or Blueline. I suppose you have to try them out and see what you think."

Atwork, you just answered question I posted somewhere else - thanks. :)
 
I was told that its best to put effects on your tracks after you've recorded them during the mixing
Click to expand...

Whilst this statement is generally true it doesn't necesarily apply to guitars, or keys in some cases.. There's not much point recording a straight uneffected guitar and them expecting to turn it into an underground grunge or a whatever after the fact. Players tend to play to the effect so record with the effect if necessary. ;)

The blueline compressor is a bit grungey to me, but I like th EQ and filters

cheers
John
 
Something to work....

Thanks again for all the input most of what you told me i had sussed in some way or other i just think its good to have input rather than hammer away for hours scratching your head when the solution may be vastly easier and different. I am gonna have a bash at mixing a track this week, but some parts need tweaking first so they'll be first in line.

I'm never truly satisifed with a composition.

As far as recording guitars goes in an 'underground grunge' stylee so to speak, i wouldn't dream of recording them with out effects, or miking up an amp and doing it that way. I imagine that not to do so, unless you want acoustic guitars is barmy, but hey... i guess you can try.

Time to get one with some work, you never know, i might have somewthing done by the end of this week, but i feel by the time i'm happy with it it'll be more like then of the year.... Cheers!!
 
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