Mix contest

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nessbass said:
Yeah, nice mix indeed, Bruce! Although the kick is too quiet for my tastes - okay I may have gone over the top in my mix....

I think it's a nice idea to bring the electrics from the verse-buildup-parts up again in the last chorus.
Thanks Ness.... I don't understand why you and Keith are having trouble with the kick level, though... I can hear it clearly defined - punctuating the bass track properly - on all the systems... even tiny computer speakers and a clock radio!

The last chorus needed the same rhythm part for more punch.... as well, I kept hearing the little gtr riffing at the end in a manner similar to some of The Cure's stuff, so I punched it up quite a bit with a bit of distortion, compression, and EQ to give it that Cure-like bright 'n dirty twang.
 
Blue Bear Sound said:
Thanks Ness.... I don't understand why you and Keith are having trouble with the kick level, though... I can hear it clearly defined - punctuating the bass track properly - on all the systems... even tiny computer speakers and a clock radio!

ditto the kick BB, not that this type song calls for it all that much, otherwise, most excellent ;) imho...

extremely clear, rich and balanced, do the kick BB ;) just a thought, heh...
 
I hear BB's kick waaaaay down there supporting the bass. No problem in my cans, which go down to around 30Hz before dropping off. I think on a system that's deficient in the low end it might disappear to some degree. But it's definitely there — just not "in your face" like almost everyone else's.
 
Blue Bear Sound said:
The last chorus needed the same rhythm part for more punch.... as well, I kept hearing the little gtr riffing at the end in a manner similar to some of The Cure's stuff, so I punched it up quite a bit with a bit of distortion, compression, and EQ to give it that Cure-like bright 'n dirty twang.

I noticed how you did that, and it was a nice touch. And it's funny, because I remember from past conversations that you kinda' got in to that particular genre (80's new wave), and when I heard that part, I said to myself: "I'll bet Bruce is going to have some fun with that guitar part and bring it out," and there it was. It would have worked better if it was up an octave, I think, but then it might have been too obvious. :D

I do think you should have de-essed those vox, though. I don't know if you can hear that or not, but they kinda' need it. And I also think you could consider how something might translate on smaller, bass-shy systems. It's not so much that the kick needs to be up in the mix, volume-wise. Just that it has to have enough harmonics to translate to a boombox or computer speakers, for example.

Good job, though.
 
Fusion2 said:
do the kick BB ;) just a thought, heh...
Nope! ;)

It's sitting where it needs to sit, as far as I'm concerned...! But hey, you guys have the tracks too - you can mix it the way you like!!! :p :D

Seriously though - echoing what Don said - I find most people's versions have placed the kick too heavily in the mix -- the song as it's been arranged simply doesn't call for that heavy kick sound -- it's the bass guitar that is carrying the low-end - the kick just needs to punctuate the beat points.
 
chessrock said:
I do think you should have de-essed those vox, though. I don't know if you can hear that or not, but they kinda' need it.
And I also think you could consider how something might translate on smaller, bass-shy systems.
Re - de-essing: yeah, I mentioned that already in my long post in response to Freeztar's comments -- if I'd more time I would have....

Re - the kick: that's what I don't get -- I hear the kick just fine on all my references here, including a tiny clock radio and my office's mini-system (all flat tone controls).... the kick isn't enough of a dominant feature of this song to warrant where most people are placing it, IMO!
 
Re: alright, here's mine...

nessbass said:
As you will hear, I messed with the tracks a lot, in a production way, rather than in a mixing way.My first impression of the first verse was that the end (the second "at all") didn't really fit where it was, so I used it to create a harmony.

I agree that the kick and snare were kind of D.O.A., and I think what you did was an improvement. I could do without the rim clicks, though.

I then delayed the backing vocal leading into the choruses ("do the same" and "again"), because I thought it would be better to fill the gap there to keep the excitement, rather than having a harmony.


Now that, I don't really think quite works. :D It sounds a little "twinkie," if you ask me. Like a guy who's singing a harmony part rather than a backing vocal part. Nice idea, though. And what's with that harmony on "at all" at the very beginning? :D Whoooo! :D Call the parametics, because it sounds like someone's dying. :D

I like what you went for with the ending guitars. Somehow, you managed to find a good pocket / space for them . . . although I wish they just had a little less of the chorus effect. I also wish so many people were'nt copying and delaying the guitar at the beginning. Just kinda' sounds like the guitarist was too lazy or sloppy to lay an extra track.

Overall, I think your mix is one of the strongest ones. In a lot of ways, I think it's better than mine, which is tough to admit, because I mixed mine according to my taste and feel it reflects a lot of what I like in a mix. But you were able to pull off a few things I wish I had thought of, and addressed a few issues with the triggering that I was far too lazy to address. :D Great job.
 
Blue Bear Sound said:
Nope! ;)

It's sitting where it needs to sit, as far as I'm concerned...! I find most people's versions have placed the kick too heavily in the mix -- the song as it's been arranged simply doesn't call for that heavy kick sound

true, i'm all metal head and expect such...

ok fellas, can we get a shootout here? i mean, there's enough tunes now to melt a normal brain much less ah-ah-ahaa.. got cha! ;)

ahem, next, posters will all want a remix, er, lawyer ;) (pun...just pun)

just a thought...
 
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@chessrock: Thanks for the compliments! And with the vocals, I thought that the gap in front of the chorus was just too long to keep it empty and a simple timed delay sounded too cheesy, so I tried it this way. Maybe, if I would have tracked that song, I would have let him sing another one in the gap.
chessrock said:
Whoooo! :D Call the parametics, because it sounds like someone's dying. :D
He sounds pretty alive to me... :D
chessrock said:
Great job.
Thanks, man.
BTW, how much time did you all spend on the mix? I had a day off (being sick, basically), so I gave it a full 14 hour day.

@bluebear:

Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem hearing it, I just would have liked it louder. I understand your explanation, that you wanted the bass to carry the song, that's fine with me, but there are two problems IMO.

- the bass isn't played that well with all that sliding and stuff
- the bass and the kick don't 'coincide' enough...let me explain that: let's look at the verse part,

the kick goes XX-X-X--
the bass goes X--X--X-

See what I mean? You have to take the snare into the picture to make it work. Well, I don't know, I'd make it - no, I did make it differently.
It's a legitimate approach nonetheless, and I want to stress that I don't have a problem with it.:)
 
Ness.... don't know what to say - maybe it's simply my personal preference versus others', but I mixed it the way I wanted it to be heard - including the kick placement which sounds correct to my ears...!

Not saying there's things I wouldn't change if I re-did it, but the kick placement isn't one of them! ;)
 
Nice job guys on the last few mixes. I can't listen objectively because I only have the headphones here at work to listen - I just moved into a new house and all my recording gear is still packed away.

I think BB brings up a good point. At some point, the guy doing to mix needs to make a judgement on where the levels should be. Not everyone "hears" it the same way.

One things for sure, when the mix rocks, it rocks. The electric guitars up the way BB and chess did is really nice.
 
Well shit then. I will post a quick mix tomorrow. I went thu the tune very fast a couple times each time thinking the electrics were a bit hot. That's how I like it. I wish I could hear Blues and Chess's mixes. I can't download much at work and am very busy in my studio at nights. I do like the tune.

Kirk
 
Reviews

Hey guys,

I finally found the time to listen through most of the other mixes again. Some I couldn't download, so they won't be included here for that matter. Mind you, I'm talking about my opinions here, not about perfect truths. I may sound rude, but really, I don't intend to be. I'm just reviewing mixes and giving my opinion. Feel free to rip my mix apart as well.

So, lets see...

chessrock
The additional keys do give the song a nice touch. Maybe a tad too much reverb on the vocals in the intro. Fat snare (maybe too fat?). The electrics seem to be quite midrangey and stick out compared the chorus; they add more drive, though (that's a good thing). Much more creative use of delays and cutout vocals in the 'let it out'-part than in my mix. Nice.

Doug H (problem is I don't know which version of your mix I have...I guess it's the newer one)
Suffers from mp3 encoding, which could also be a source for the other problems. I don't quite like the sound of the Overheads, a little EQ could have tamed them. The snare sound could also be improved. I think the backing vocals are too dry or maybe just too loud compared to the main vocal. And watch out for that 'inexplicably loud' line in the main vocal, there's something distorting! I tamed it and those other words or syllables that just seem to jump out at you in my mix using automation before doing anything else, the rest is handled by compression.
The acoustic has a peculiar wobbling to it, as if it was played back from and old tape deck, especially right after the first chorus. I don't know where this is coming from, maybe you can check and tell us?
And finally, the Cure-ish melody guitar could use some more presence to stand out a little more.
Good overall balance, though, I guess.

fenix (mastered version)
The drums are quite loud, and I think the snare reverb doesn't fit. Here's the opposite problem with the backing vocals, too wet and too quiet. The distorted vocal in the stop-part doesn't fit the song and therefore startles pretty much. Apart from that, nice mix, a lot of punchiness quite similar to chessrock.
Oh, I listened to it again and heard a very sharp attack on the acoustic somewhere in the second chorus (about 2 mins into the song). I remember when I did my mix and I discovered that attack, I just cut out a similar chord from somewhere else in the track and crossfaded that in. Took about two minutes.

freeztar
Very dry mix. Quite unprocessed overall. The kick drum could use more punch, try compressing and/or EQing it. I'd like to hear the electric guitars louder. The whole mix doesn't seem to be as 'stereo' as the others, don't be afraid of hard-panning things, as long as you don't do it all the time. Watch out for volume inconsistencies in the main vocal, try some fader moves. Try to seperate the guitars more (panning, EQ).

Kramer
I'll review mix 1 here, because mix#2 just sounds awfully squashed, sorry.:(
I think the guitars, especially the acoustic is too quiet, as is the kick drum, while the snare and the backing vocals are too loud. Vocal reverb in the choruses doesn't seem to fit, maybe too much HF content? Watch out for sibilance.

LooneyTunez
First impression is very good, although the timing issues in the drums should have been adressed (but that is true for some of the other mixes as well). A little more spaciousness in the 'let it out'-part would be nice. Maybe the electrics could be just slightly louder in the verse part? I don't know.
Definitely one of the best mixes around here. Flies.

DonF
The whole snare track needs help. The snare itself doesn't open up sound-wise, and the rimclicks also lack presence and seem to be too quiet as well. The bass is somewhat on the boomy side and tends to overpower the mix, especially in the low mids. I guess you compressed the whole mix, which becomes apparent in the 'let it out'-part between choruses 2 and 3, where the bass kinda ducks the mix. BTW, where are the electrics? I think by having them that low in the mix you give away some of the songs dynamics. The melody guitar in the end is nearly not there.

Fishmed
First off, the acoustic seems to be chorused, which I don't like, what did you use to stereoize it? Maybe it's a harmonizer set too high?
The bass is too quiet. And with the bass that low, the deep low end of the kick seems to be way out of proportion.
You're right with the electrics, same problem as with DonFs mix. And yes, I also think that the rimclicks are too soft.

man@work
Oops, totally different sound. The vocals and the acoustic sound thin, the drums are harsh, the whole mix sounds squashed, distorted and unpleasant, at least to me, sorry. :(
The only thing that seems to have gained character is the bass.

christiaan
Another mix lacking electric guitars. The snare reverb doesn't fit. Maybe the bass could be brought up a bit. I'm not sure, but the vocal seems to be a little overcompressed, but maybe it's just my ears slowly falling apart, after hearing 10 different mixes for several times. Apart from that, nice mix.

caryindy I guess I'm listening to the newer version of your mix.
I guess I can make this one short...The whole mix seems to be bass-shy, at least on my system, while the overhead and the hihat seem to be too bright, or maybe it's just that scooped-mid-sound mixmkr talked about (but he was reviewing the older version of your mix, right)? Nevertheless a nice mix.

wetteke (second mix)
At last someone with a different approach. The vocal effect is interesting, but to keep it up all the time doesn't help the song, IMO. And the chorused lead guitar is somewhat over the top, too. In addition, I don't like the combination of the two sounds - a virtually modern vocal sound combined with that super-wet 80ies guitar? No, not my style.
BUT, the mix is different and therefore refreshing, although not really usable as a final mix, sorry.


So, that's it for now. I guess I've missed sae, SLuiCe, voxjockey and NikD. Sorry, guys, I'll try and see if I can get a download of your songs as well, but that won't happen before next week.

Comments?
 
Blue Bear Sound
Nice, song has more air than any mix I've heard yet. Sounds like you spent some time on the vocals, they sound great. The accoustics through the meat of the song has the right kind of "scrape", good one.

I have to agree the kick is a little hidden. I do think your interpretation of the kick/bass in this song is correct. Maybe it's because the delta between the snare and kick is so great it throws the overall image of the drums out a bit.

Only thing I really missed on this one is the overheads, I really liked the "ridesmanship" on this tune, hence it's a little overdone on my mix.
 
nessbass
Thanks for checking out my mix. I tried to just limit that loud vocal part out and It's long since been apparent to me that that didn't cut it. A bit of low pass on the overheads sounds like it would be a good idea since I want those tracks up.
Not sure about the general audio issues.
 
nessbass
Nice mix, vocals and main accoustic sound good. Rythym is a little bottom bias and there's too much kick drum IMO. All the guitars are sitting good. The heavy bottom kind of smooths over the dynamic jump from the verse to the chorus. Good mix, nice sound to it.
 
Fusion2 said:
anyone know what BB mixes with/on/etc? big thanks...

Blue Bear should know this...:D:D

Sorry, I just had to.

Maybe a look at his quite informative website will answer some questions. As to what he used specifically on this project, you will have to wait for his answer.

David
 
My full gear list is on the site, but for this mix - here's what was used....

I did the audio edits in Cubase SX (the only processing was some comp/gating for the snare tracks) .... dumped all the tracks over to the HD24... and mixed everything on the Mackie 8-buss....

For outboard, I used 2 RNCs, and a bunch of reverb/effect units (Roland SRV3030, a pair of Lexi MPX500s, a pair of Yamaha SPX90s, a Lexi LXP15mkII, a Rocktron Intellifex LTD, a 4-ch Sony DSPV55.......

I mixed down at 24-bit/88.2KHz via Lucid AD9624 converters to an Alesis Masterlink.... (monitoring from the Masterlink via a Lucid DA9624...)

C'est tout!
 
ah, no PT ;) thanks nessbass, didn't think he'd be far on a Sat...

yeeow BB, nice studio! ageesh... ;)
 
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