Mix contest

  • Thread starter Thread starter caryindy
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I'm not the Bear, but I'll take a shot at answering your question...

Originally posted by Chibi Nappa
just wondering what you listen for when panning the overheads to make a correct sterio image.
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Listen again to those overhead tracks panned hard left/right. Notice the 'hole' in the middle and how really everything seems to be stereo? This is what you try to avoid. So start panning them inwards and see what happens. At some point the two tracks will gel together and the snare and kick will become more defined, the two tracks will sound as though they belong together more (I don't now how to describe it better). So,
Do you just twiddle to pan knobs until you hear the individual drums/cymbals coming from well-defined locations?
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yes, this is basically it.

What do you check when placing overheads in the first place to avoid this?
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Basically, you have to watch out for that 'hole' in the middle. When there's nothing coming from in between your speakers, it's too much. But instead of using a spaced pair technique, like fenix did here, you can use the xy-technique, which helps to achieve a more precise image of the drumset while minimizing phase issues.

Another word on 'correct stereo image'. Blue Bear already mentioned that the overhead tracks were marked left and right from the drummer's point of view. So another thing to consider is whether you want to mix the whole drumset from the drummer's point of view (like I did, for example), then you have to pan the hihats and the toms accordingly (hats left, toms slightly left and slightly more right), or from the audience's point of view like Blue Bear did (hats on the right, toms right to left). This is a very important thing to consider, and it almost doesn't matter to do it either way, it's more of a philosophy thing.

Oh, and gentlemen, keep on sucking, it feels sooo good.:rolleyes:
 
Chibi Nappa said:
Hey Blue Bear, just wondering what you listen for when panning the overheads to make a correct sterio image. Do you just twiddle to pan knobs until you hear the individual drums/cymbals coming from well-defined locations? What do you check when placing overheads in the first place to avoid this?
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First off _ i choose my perspective (audience or drummer) -- and my personal choice is audience but if a client insists on drummer, so be it....

Then I listen to the OH tracks to hear where the mics were oriented... if the OHs have some semblance of image, then you should be able to pick out the hi-hat location if you pan them apart. Once I find out which track is which, then I set the rest of the kit up in the same manner (matcing the perspective I've chosen)...

Now if the OH stereo image is obscure or muddy, you can play with panning to find a point where the kit comes "in focus" (for lack of a better term).... in this specific case for me, it was panned 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock. I found that was the maximum I could pan (due entirely to how the mics were placed during tracking) where the OH stereo image was still clear - wider and you lost the sense of location.
 
Ah ha. I'll pull the tracks back up and listen for that.

[Mr. Burns] Excellent. [/Mr. Burns]

Thanks guys.
 
Chibi Nappa said:
I think you're missing the point of all this.... It is not so much a contest as a learning expariance. When do any of us ever get to see how our skills measure up using the same tracks? Having a pro participate makes it that much better.
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where's the learning experience in copying each others stuff and then listening to a good mix but not understanding what the fuck went wrong. blue bear could explain 'till he's blue in the face : the next mix most of you guys make will sound exactly like all the stuff you've been doing in the past.

i'm dissapointed because i expected some more exciting ORIGINAL stuff, not the same dull approache all over.



but hey, shoveling mud isn't all that bad : you could all be shoveling shit instead !!!
 
wetteke said:
[T]he next mix most of you guys make will sound exactly like all the stuff you've been doing in the past.
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Not mine, thanks to BB and others. I think you're being way too cynical.
 
wetteke said:
where's the learning experience in copying each others stuff and then listening to a good mix but not understanding what the...
<snip>

i'm dissapointed because i expected some more exciting ORIGINAL stuff, not the same dull approache all over.
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You missed the point of the thread. I shouldn't have called it "mix contest" it should have been called 'Mix clinic" or something. Those who were interested in learning, probably did. When you hear something that sounds good and you learn how it's done, that's a lot quicker than stumbling on it in your own experimentations, right? On the other hand, when you hear something that sounds like garbage, you know to stay away from that too.

For those who wanted to add parts or play producer role, fine. No harm done. In the purest sense, we had some tracks and the task was to put them together in the most pleasing mix. When you say you wanted some more exciting and original stuff, what exactly do you mean? Do you mean in terms of production, or mixing?

Overall, I think the thread was a success.
 
caryindy said:
When you say you wanted some more exciting and original stuff, what exactly do you mean? Do you mean in terms of production, or mixing?

Overall, I think the thread was a success.
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both really, and the thread IS a success, it's just that people like me expect more than mediocrity :)
 
wetteke said:
are YOU one of the church people dwelling these forums?
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What does THAT have to do with anything? Are "church people" not allowed here? Are your feelings hurt because I disagreed with your comments? If so, please accept my apologies.
 
Hey Wetteke,


I guess I'm not hearing the same things you're hearing. Althogh I can appreciate the fact that you're taking an obviously bold stance on this, which is admirable.

But frankly, I was expecting to hear much bigger disparity between the best and worst mixes.

The most revealing part of this whole thing, to me, was the importance of the tracking phase. Various mixes were able to bring out a little of this or that, but for the most part, the mix is what it is because of how it was tracked.

Bluebear's was just one man's spin on it; more organic and stripped down, which was kind of refreshing. It certainly wasn't without it's problems or faults -- hell, I think he got lazy on us by not de-essing the vocals. :D Frankly, those were hurting my ears. His interperatation of the bass in general, and particularly the interaction between the bass guitar and kick were, again, refreshing (I like it better the more I listen to it), but not every guy's cup of tea.

What I'm saying is there are things I liked a lot and things I didn't like, and yea, his mix was probably what I'd consider to be "better" than a lot of guys here, but then he's a lot more experienced, so I'd hope so, Captain Obvious. Duh. :D

But I was expecting his to blow everyone else's away by miles, and it turned out to be more like feet, and in some cases, inches. And in one or two cases, not even that.
 
DonF said:
What does THAT have to do with anything? Are "church people" not allowed here? Are your feelings hurt because I disagreed with your comments? If so, please accept my apologies.
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i'm sorry man but i'm wetting myself laughing :) :) :) :) :) :) so you ARE one of them?
 
wetteke said:
a bunch of guys all make (basicly) the same mix in their home studio's on cheap computers or crappy desks.

in comes this pro with tons of hardware and years of experience.

his mix is the best!!!


some 'contest'.


blue bear : i don't think i like you but you know your trade!

(almost) everyone else : stop sucking each others dicks gentlemen, you're not quite there yet!!!
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I hate using profanity on these board, but for the sake of quoting I will. Wetteke, it seems to me you are the one doing the dick sucking. "in comes this pro...his mix is the best!!!" Sounds like dick sucking to me. No offense to BlueBear, yes he is a pro, but I think if we took a vote on the top mix, BlueBear would have some votes (maybe because of his pro status and frequent wonderful knowledge and tips on the board, I'm not sure) but I think his mix would not be the best. This may be because of the fact he does this stuff for a living (I think) and he doesn't have the time to spend on a thing like this...or that may just be my personal opinion.

My computer with software alone has about $6000 dumped into it--and I built it myself. That's not to mention the 2 Aphex Compellors (not cheap!) and the Dual 31 Ashley EQ I used on my mix. If you think that's a cheap setup...well let's just put it this way, you won't find an RNC on my mix.

I agree with the others. It's a learning experience. I wouldn't even consider it a contest because there are so many different interpretations of a mix, not one single mix is gonna be the right mix. It's not about what you have, but what you do with what you have.
 
chessrock said:
Hey Wetteke,


I guess I'm not hearing the same things you're hearing.
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i don't think that's the case, what i mean is that all mixes (including BB's) sound very similar. the thing is that i don't understand what direction you guys think you're going. you do nothing else but talk about modern mastering and commercial cd's but have any of you heard what commercial music sounds like nowadays?

my point is that when you can't make it in the multinationals league try to do something different : experiment; try to give it an original sound. i think most of you work in basements because that's what your music sounds like.
 
I see the people on this BB as my recording peers. Most of the time we share info on Gear and Rooms, but this has been a great experience on technique. Using the same mix puts us on the same playing field... at least to start with. I was using this contest to learn more about my own mixing style and what I could learn from others who participated in it. Now I did not get as much feedback on my own mixes, but I did listen to all the other mixes and read the responses about them, I have learned some from each of them. I see mixing as an art and not a science; therefore, there is not a right nor wrong way of mixing, just ways that are more pleasing to the masses. I know I could have been more creative on the mix itself, but that would have removed the focus away from my basic skills, and that is what I really want feedback on... at least for right now. I may do a freak mix later for creativity sakes.
 
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Well, I just gave the overheads a listen, and I'll be damned! They do come into focus with some panning. I never knew that. It's good to learn something new. Thanks guys. I gave my own recordings a listen, and it turns out I have the same problem. Good thing I wasn't too far along in the mixing process of my current project. Anyway, I'm late enough to this party already. I'll post my mix soon.
 
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