Minidisc or DAT ?

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mstudio1224@aol.com

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I have been recording PRE/POST PRODUCTION to DAT-Sony D8
but I have been thinking of converting to MiniDisc. I record to CD also, but I dont carry a CD player too bulky, so MD seems adequate for me, but here are the RECORDING reasons it seems better.

Reason:

1 Smaller medium
2 holds more than DAT , 5 CD's worth on 1 disc
3 no saturation of sound over time
4 easier to carry around than a portable D8
5 Digital transfers via OPTICAL for precise recording, no hiss
6 downloadable, MP3 compliant
7 still can plug into a mixer to hear over monitors
8 copies are a sinch, to someones CD,tape deck all handheld

Any reasons I should stay with DAT ?
 
Stick with the Dat in my opinion...

The MD uses a form of data compression in order to store everything on that cute little disc...

The result... less than perfect sound.
 
Well, one thing that might be a disadvantage to you is the lack of digital output on most portable MD recorders. You gotta go to a pro model like the Marantz or HHB to get that. You may be under the impression that those USB cables that hook to the MD player allow you to do digital transfers to the computer, but they do not for copyright reasons.

As for the sound quality, there are actually some compelling arguments for the quality of MD. With the newer versions of ATRAC, the internal processing is done in the 24bit realm before being written to the MD format among lots of other improvements.

Complaints of MD's sound quality are largely based on the early recorders with version 1 of ATRAC, which did indeed sound kinda bad. I really think the quality differences between DAT and MD are slim to none. You're main limitation is still the headroom and noise floor offered by 16-bit resolution. (not that it isn't excellent, it's just not 24bit!)
 
hmmmm

hmmmmm Oh! really, I didnt know that, guess I should hear something first before making the initial decision.

So basically it would sound as if I put it through a compressor and squeezed the life out of it ? basically no PUNCH
 
No...

Im not much of a techie, so don't expect too much nuts and bolts talk from me.. but...

The music on a minidisc is stored as a form of data, rather than a Direct recording... and in order to make the data size smaller, in order to store more music, certain parts of the data are dropped..

And since that data is the actual sound, certain elements of the sound are dropped....


Thats very simplified.. but it's pretty much that Idea...
 
You won't lose any "punch" and it won't sound compressed. We're talking about data compression here, not sound compression.

When people complain about compression artifacts, they're talking about what you hear when you listen to streaming audio on the net. Obviously, MD is going to have a lot less of that. Theoretically, it is there, but it is well below human audibility.

To address your point #2, MD doesn't hold any more than a CD. Blanks come in 74 and 80 minute varieties. You can do long play mode though, but it is at a loss in quality.
 
And since that data is the actual sound, certain elements of the sound are dropped....
Click to expand...

Oh, and actually, a CD is just data too. Just an electronic way of representing an analog waveform. It's not even necessarily better than a lightly compressed format such as MD, and both are a far superior representation than a bunch of bumps on a piece of plastic (LPs) or a bunch of magnetic particles being magnetized in alternating polarities. (tape)
 
Thanks guys

Phloodpants
VOXVENDOR

Phloodpants - so I should look for one with the newer version of ATRAC ? Also, I think I just want the ease & control of: PLAY & REWIND (that damn bzzzzt, click click, brzzzzzzt, chic bzzzt) on the DAT just to get to a song reminds me of ADATS

A friend of mine says what you put in is what you get out, being I've never heard a copy I cant make that claim, I would hope so, but then I ask myself "WHY IS HE SELLING AN MD HIMSELF" hmmmm. Apparently he was on my wavelength on thinking about the MD, but he probably just needs money.

I'll record simple as possible to not receive quality loss, but as it looks your telling me DAT presumes the lead in the decision.

I dont care to download anyway, just make a mix from my mixer, listen to it throughout the day and save it --- THAT'S IT
 
Any recorder that you buy new is going to have ATRAC v4 or higher, so that's no worry unless you're buying a used unit. Just make sure you don't go lower than v3.5.

As for ease of use, the MD is a dream! No rewinding, no fast forwarding, no waiting for the mechanism to catch up, etc etc... Plus, the reliability of MD is far superior to DAT due to the much smaller amount of moving parts, and no heads wear out or clean.

Everything you record is simply treated like a CD track. You can add a track marker anywhere you like without interrupting anything. You can erase tracks and record new stuff in it's place and you can edit tracks, merge them together, re-sequence, etc etc... really cool!
 
MDLP adds compression. If you record like a 74 minute cdr, then there is no loss. I think...
 
hokypokynose said:
MDLP adds compression. If you record like a 74 minute cdr, then there is no loss. I think...
Click to expand...
If you're refering to MDLP as MiniDiskLongPlay you're right, you're even right if you just talk about MD. MiniDisk is a lossy format, compare it to MP3...

CD = no compression
 
Due to most of us not being up on MD technology. there is a format of MD that stores MP3 data and will store 4 CDs.

The Atrack compression is a data compression that is alot like the same compression used by your computer hard drive. It has nothing to do with sound. What happens is you will lose data in each generation of duplication.

The dats dont do that. but they are suseptable to damage and other tape problems. MD technology is fine for personal listening but as a mastering medium its not reccomended.

Recording to your harddisk on your computer is better than both these formats. I reccomend mastering to it.
 
Actually, ATRAC compression is not data compression like a computer ZIP file. If it were it would be completely lossless.

However, as you may have experienced, wave files don't zip well at all because they do not contain a lot of repetetive data.

ATRAC is a perceptual encoding format, similar to MP3, but with much less compression. (typically)

Perceptual encoding takes advantage of the way we hear things. One of the simplest things is does it to eliminate data we cannot percieve, such as a low-level signal being momentarily masked by a snare drum hit for example. There are many other mechanisms incorporated, but it's pretty huge topic.
 
Thanks fellas

Phloodpants & Darrin_h2000

thanks for that info partner "ATRAC V4 or higher" dont go lower.

The whole thing of : No RW, FF etc. etc. that's what I'm talking about, I understand also that DAT has wear and tear as "darrin_h2000" mentioned.

Also Darrin, I would never ever think of using that as a mastering medium, from my FIRST POST it was all intentional for POST/PRE-PRODUCTION USAGE, nothing more, create an idea, quick mix to MD; that's it, listen back while looking at all the honeys outside.

But thanks for filling me in on all the proper information to look for when I make my purchase today. SONY is the only real headliner in this manufactured item, so I will go on what I know and make a purchase today "Thank god for WIZ credit cards"

Darrin_h2000 --- So you think a lot of people have not made this change ?, being you said "Due to most people not being up on MD technology". just asking


Have a good weekend fellas ----
 
It says....

I got the recent one: MZ-N707 net MD (BLUE COLOR)

After searching HIGH & LOW I didnt see the ATRAC sign until I got back here and it says ---ATRAC 3---

Now I'm wondering is this v3.5 but it's the latest version

everything else is what I need, can anyone let me know, if I should stay with this or take it back --- I HAVENT OPEN IT YET----
I have 14 days to return.

Mind you -- this is the newest one --people have been waiting for
 
This is gonna sound weird, but ATRAC 3 is actually NEWER than ATRAC v4.5. ATRAC 3 has the additional option of the high-compression MP3-like mode. in normal MD mode, it's the same as v4.5.

I think they are calling it "ATRAC 3" to correlate with "MP3".:rolleyes:

You're all set. That's a nice little unit!
 
Interesting viewpoints on here... some slightly misleading...

I don't care how good the ATRAC data compression is - you cannot compare a lossy format to a non-lossy format in terms of sound quality.

ATRAC throws away a portion of the signal, DAT/CD/etc... DOESN'T! No comparison.............. period.

MP3 is NOT considered a viable mixdown option for simply that reason. You certainly won't see studios using it for anything but client format transfers.....

What I do agree with is the relative scale of use -- will it matter a whole lot to the average home-rec'cer - especially a novice? probably not....

But even a rookie should know of the inherent limitations of the gear their using, even if they can't necessarily hear the difference in sound quality.

Bruce
 
kicks ass

Blue Bear Sound -- I never said, I intended to use it for MIXDOWN purposes just ROUGH DRAFT MIXES, like when I finish a song, rough draft mix, right to MD. It's easier to carry than a portable DAT, less batteries, dont have to worry about RW,FF etc... and if people want to hear a mix, plug in the headphone jack into a channel and vwala. ---- but I still put final MIXES to CD or HD.
But your points were valid ---- I'm just not using it in that context.


Phloodpants -- your right that does sound wierd, but I'm happy with it, listening to it right now, the quality is DAMN GOOD, I dont care what no one says. I HAVE IT, I TRIED IT, IT ROCKS

I played it in the CAR -- serious thump
I played it over computer monitors -- very clear stereo mix
I played it thru a channel in my DM24 --- Still very serious thump
I played it thru headphone with a extra vol. --- WHAT, HUNGH!
I CANT HEAR YOU --- WHAAAAAAAAAA

ha ha haa

seriously -- the unit is a KEEPER in my book, the misses now wants one, I've totalled 60 tracks on (2) discs, my songs are around 3:20 each -- even people at my job are impressed, I'm like a damn SPOKES PERSON FOR SONY --- but they really want a copy of my CD though -- hee hee

COOL UNIT PEOPLE
 
So, um, how much do you want ($$) for that Sony D8 DAT you have lying around?
 
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