mid tone: how important?

[WEBCYAN]

The usual settings I use are treble to 6, bass to 5, and mid to 0.

I dont really like the sound of the mid range tone even at just 5.

how important is this to the overall sound?

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

It will depend completely on the guitarist, the guitar, the amp, and the playing level... not to mention 100 other factors that make YOUR settings individual to you and no one else...

Bruce

 

[64Firebird]

People hear things better in the mid-ranges than they do in the high and low ranges. That's why you like those settings, it sounds fuller, more compleat. You sound like the whole band all by yourself.

The problems arise when you add in the other band members, the guitar could be lost in the mix. This is where most guitar players want to turn up the volume. You must start thinking about your tone in this whole band context. If you boost your mids a little (in the band context) you may find that you don't need that 100 watt amp as much as you thought you did.

A trick I like when I'm playing live is to boost the highs and lower everything else. Then, I'll roll off the tone from my guitar. That's what BB King or Stevie Ray Vaughn are doing when you see them tweek the guitar's knobs between licks.

 

[Lopp]

I agree with 64firebird 100%.

That scooped out tone does sound balls-to-the-wall alone, but it can get lost in the mix. It will especially get muddied up by the bass guitar. Thus, if you have the bass guitar at a decent level, your scooped guitar will sound thin. If you boost the scooped guitar, you will lose the bass.

However, if you tweak the correct frequencies, you can obtain a decent scooped tone without clashing with the bass. Just be sure the frequencies of the guitar occupy different locations in the spectrum from the bass.

 

[Slackmaster2K]

Real guitar tone is in the mids...the guitar is a midrange instrument. Masking the mids masks poor playing. There are certain circumstances where cutting the mids is appropriate (some heavy metal), but usually you're just cheating yourself.

I bet this happens to almost all of us. I played with cut mids for a long time too because I thought it sounded cool. Do yourself a favor, and turn up the mids, then play until it sounds good. I don't stick with one tone setting, but I usually have my mids (on a three band) at least competing with treble...and if I take anything out it's low end, because the guitar really doesn't belong down there (though just playing solo it is nice to have a lot of bottom).

Slackmaster 2000

 

[six]

webcyan, when I started to play guitar my default amp setting was 10-0-10, full gain .
ok, the mids of that lil' 15w peavey blazer transistor sounded quite boxy - but some weeks ago I grabbed this amp again and played it in the 10-0-10 way once again and .... oh god... it sounded so awful.

a good approach to get your ears used to the mids is to overdo it: try something like 5-10-5. if you played 10-0-10 right before it will probably sound strange but if you pick up your guitar the next day it will already sound a bit better - it's all so relative, einstein.

when it starts to sound ok, you can turn back the mids a bit - but hey, you will start to like them. jimi used to play 10-10-10 - and didn't he have great tone?

btw: in my favorite amp settings the difference between rhythm and lead is not only a bit more volume but a kick at about 2khz - the peak of hearing is somewhere there... nice trick for mixing too.

 

[WEBCYAN]

that was all actually helpful adivice.

I did notice that playing alone sounded fine but when I recorded it with everything else it sounded really really dry.

this should help alot. thanks.

although, I've listened to the APC cd probably 100 times and Ive noticed that the mids on their guitars are practically non-existant. although, they sound great regardles...

 

[charger]

Actually, you must set the bass to 1 o'clock, the Mid to 12 o-clock, and the treble to 2 o'clock. On every amp. With every guitar and with every player.

Muaaahahahahahaha!

Hey homewreckers!!! I come back from vacation and this is the best stuff on the board! Oh god, take me now!!!

 

[Krystof01]

Remember that flat EQ is when you've got 0-10-0; not 0-0-0. The mids should naturally be hard right.

It is imperative to take inot account the rest of the band and their instruments. There's no point in just putting the mids up without hearing how your altering the tone; don't think 'cus were all basically saying turn the mids up in most situations that were right; there is no right or wrong. What happens over time is that you naturally develop a better ear and also learn to compromise (think about the band as a whole as opposed to your own sound).

Mids aside; I'd also say most guitarists I encounter have the highs to high (that's another trap, there's an illusion that you sound better as your clearer but in actual fact your tone can sound very 'tinny' and harsh.

That's why I think the mids are so important (highs can sound harsh and too much bass messes with the bass in the band). Like someone else stated the guitar is a midrange instrument.

I'd suggest starting to play at flat EQ 0-10-0 and tweak gradually. Maybe change one setting a day so you can get comfortable with the differing sound (and understand it; not changing it 'cus we say).

Later,
Krystof.

 

[six]

krystof, I don't make my living as a guitar-amp-eq-builder but I think I know that on most amps the eq's are passive so flat would be 10-10-10, no?

 

[Krystof01]

Six; now that you say that, I don't know. I've always been told flat eq is bass at 0, midrange hard right (10) and treble at 0, along with explanations of why this is so; none of which comes to mind though it seems logical.

Prehaps you could post a link where it explains it. I don't ever use flat eq (wheather the way I said or your way) as I use my ears to determine settings but I don't like giving false information.

 

[six]

krystof: - no link for that one. It was my brain that told me so . when an eq is passive you can only cut. if the (bass)-eq was flat at 0, you would have to boost to get the sound at 10.
if it's flat at 10 you can cut down to 0... see my point?


when I am looking for a new sound I start at 5-5-5 though.

 

[badgas]

Hmmm. I think it's all in the ear.

 

[Krystof01]

Six; though I can see the logic I know that what I have been told on several occasions has also made sence. I have also read a few articles where I'm sure it states this. I'll try and find them.

I think unless you already know what your doing (ear refined), starting at 5-5-5 isn't a great starting point as you can't hear the disparity between the variables (bass/mid/treble) as well IMO.

 

[matty_boy]

flat eq

A guitar amp has a passive eq. Flat is 5-5-5. The tone knob on your guitar (if you have passive pickups), is flat at ten. As far as tone, I find that experimentation is the key. Every time I turn on my amp I change the settings. (although this may just tell me that I need a new amp).

Matty

 

[Hard2Hear]

Re: flat eq

A guitar amp has a passive eq. Flat is 5-5-5. Matty

That's actually not true on ALL amps. The Fender Twin, and Prosonic I have both have active EQ. A good test to check how yours works is to put all 3 bands of EQ to 0. No sound at all with volume cranked means you've got an active EQ.

I play with my mids cranked in most cases.

H2H

 

[WEBCYAN]

that was helpful. now i know i have active

 

[savageblues]

My Bassman doesn't have a Mid control...one less thing to set wrong. A loud tube amp can sound flubby / farty with the Bass set too high. I stick around 4-6 nearly always for B and T and work my guitar V, Tone, pickups.

 

[six]

guys, guys, guys... (wasn't there a crue song going like this??? oh no, that was "girls")

if your passive amp-eq is flat at 5-5-5, what would happen if you crank the mids to 10?

would the mids be boosted? hey, your eq is passive!

 

[Lopp]

Re: flat eq

A guitar amp has a passive eq. Flat is 5-5-5.

No. If the EQ is truly passive, flat would be 10 on each knob. A passive EQ means each knob acts only as a filter. It does not increase the gain of the selected frequency. It only cuts the selected frequency. Thus, having a knob on "5" would cut the frequency a set amount down from "10."

Think of it this way. Since a passive EQ can only cut, "10" means no cut. Anything below "10" starts cutting.