mics for a church choir

M

mharr552000

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Any one have any ideas on recording a church choir? I was thinking a stereo pair would do the trick. What kinds(makes/models) of mics work best?
 
I'll second the SM81's for all the reasons Massive mentioned. I use them every year for recording a group of about 100 people in a chior and they are absolutely perfect for it.
 
Are you looking to mic them during a church service for the purpose of amplification to the congregation or are you recording them outside of the service for the purpose of making an album.

The difference is that for services the physical arrangement of the singers is controlled by the architecture and thus an XY pair might place some singers much farther than others, where if you have flexibility over the arrangement and you can put them in a semicircle, in which case an XY or ORTF pair will work very well.

I have recorded choirs well with an XY pair of LDCs.

If you are looking for how to mic up a choir for a church service the Shure site has an application guide for houses of workship
 
Outside of a service. Recording a xmas program for a CD project. It's mostly a choir with some solo stuff and some narraration.
$700 bucks for a pair of SM81s is too steep. Even $200-300 a piece on Ebay is too much. I'd like to use the good stuff, but the budget just isn't there.
 
mharr552000 said:
Outside of a service. Recording a xmas program for a CD project. It's mostly a choir with some solo stuff and some narraration.
$700 bucks for a pair of SM81s is too steep. Even $200-300 a piece on Ebay is too much. I'd like to use the good stuff, but the budget just isn't there.
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You could rent them or sell them when you're done on ebay might even be cheaper.
 
wheelema said:
And here I thought for sure John would be recommending the M-Audio Solaris...
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Does it show that much? I really like those things... :)

Actually, if he didn't say "church" in there, I probably would have... But sometimes, you just have to go with the "staples" like the 81's. I think they're still the "if you could only have one mic..." mic for me.

But yeah, the more I think about it, some people probably think that I have a closet full of Solaris' and nothing else! :eek:

However, you make a good point - There's a youth orchestra that I record often around here - sometimes, at a local church that has some pretty "huge" acoustics (that I really don't care for, but I don't call the shots).

Next time they record there, I think I'm gonna have to "echo chamber" test the Solaris mics and see how they handle...
 
A couple of decent SDC's in an ORTF placement behind the conductor, at 10-12' will make you a happy engineer.
 
paddyponchero said:
You could rent them or sell them when you're done on ebay might even be cheaper.
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Yes, rent them, along with a couple of other mics for the soloists and narrators. I use my 81s along with KSM27s for soloists and 58s for narrators all the time.

If this is for a CD project, then I presume you are burning at least a few hundred CDs, so on a per CD basis the rental ($100 for 4 mics for 3 days, we'll say) is well less than $0.50 per CD, and it's money well spent. If your mic budget to purchase is only $100, you aren't going to get a very good CD.

That makes me wonder what the rest of the recording chain is like. Doesn't have to be super expensive, but $100 for mic rental into a couple of decent pres into a Tascam 4-track can get surprisingly good results. A bunch of cheap dynamics spread out 1 for every 3 choir members (too many church choir members like lots of mics) into a PC . . . good luck with that.

Another way to go is with installed sound; those little ceiling-mounted condenser mics for the choir, a halfway decent 16 channel board, etc. That way the choir has the system for every service, and you can plug in a recorder whenever you like. More money up front, but very cost effective over time. That Shure guide is excellent for stuff like that, have a read:

http://www.shure.com/pdf/booklets/audio_for_houses_of_worship.pdf

This guide is so good I think it should be required reading for every aspiring sound tech BEFORE they are allowed to touch a church system, and nearly all of the mic placement principles are applicable to recording too. Seriously, read that thing front to back three times.

The thing it doesn't touch on is coincident stereo mic techniques, which are commonly used for recording, but not live sound since live sound is usually mono. Also live sound placement is usually closer, since ambiant sound is not desirable through the PA.

http://www.prosoundweb.com/install/spotlight/bartlett/bartlett.shtml

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1997_articles/feb97/stereomiking.html

http://www.audiotechnica.com/using/mphones/worship/index.html
 
This is a good thread with some helpful info and links... good job guys.

mharr552000, if you rather own the mics instead of renting them but can't afford the Shure SM81's yet... you might want to look into some cheaper budget SDC mics like the Marshall MXL603SPR. The Marshall MXL603SPR is a "Stereo Matched Pair" of MXL603S's (two mics), and it also comes with two shock mounts and a nice case... the cost is anywhere between about $200 and $280... depending on where you get it from and if it's old or new stock and etc.
 
Massive Master said:
Next time they record there, I think I'm gonna have to "echo chamber" test the Solaris mics and see how they handle...
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Ohhh...they'll handle alright :) . I've got a pair of them and I haven't run into anything yet that they didn't do a decent, if not excellent job on. Vocal groups, drum overheads, regular vocals (of course, depends on the voice)...they just seem to do everything pretty well.
 
Ok, since this is a crhistmas album, here is my recommendations.

Use a single pair of cardoid condensers in an XY or ORTF pair, put them on a stand high and pointed at the back row (so that the back row, slightly more on-axis than the front row, makes up for the extra distance. Arrange the choir in a semicircle around the microphone, at about the 12 foot radius mentioned earlier. Have a separate close mic for the narrator, possibly even do a separate tracking of it. Also close mic the soloist. As for which microphones to use, if you had a good pair of microphones already use them. For a choir they no not actually have to be a certified matched pair, but I would suggest they be the same model and close enough matched that they seem the same to your ears. If you want to go out ant get something for this recording but are on a budget the suggestion of the MXL603SPR would be fine.

You may have a case if none of these choir folks have not done recording before they may just want to go in 'run through the program' and be gone.
 
This is very useful. Although I have not yet recorded a choir, I do have a pair of 81s and I was afraid I'd need a pair of LDCs for the job. This will save me a few bucks.
 
mharr552000 said:
Any one have any ideas on recording a church choir? I was thinking a stereo pair would do the trick. What kinds(makes/models) of mics work best?
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Best? A pair of Earthworks QTC-1's running through Millennia HV-3 mic pre channels will get you there. Will give the recording beautiful space, depth and imagery. DPA mics are a common and much-used professional choice when the "best" is desired for critical recordings.

The 81's have a very two-dimensional, up-front sound. They'll work. But they're not even halfway to "best".
 
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Yo Mharr- If the budget for the SM81's (a good recommendation) isn't there, consider a pair of Studio Prolects C-4's. $325 or so for the pair with shock mounts, omni capsules, and a solid case. I consider them more accurate and more versatile than the MXL 603's. Like almost all condensers, you will need a mixer or a preamp with phantom power, so take that into account. I've done choirs and a full orchestra with the C-4's, with very good results.-Richie
 
I'm with Dot.

If it's a good room, I take in a pair of B&K 4007 omnis (now DPA) with my Buzz Audio preamp (super clean and fast). But all that would set you back around $7-8k to buy (here in Aus anyway). So the word is RENT man. RENT!
Rent the best rather than buy something that will just "do the job".
 
What? Nobody's mentioned the AT 853a runnin X/Y? For the larger venues, the 853a has been a beautiful mic. Open...balanced with a very neutral low end. I prefer them to my Earthworks for tighter mic applications. I've used them on large choirs to orchestras and have been pleasantly surprised by their performance. :cool:
 
From what I've read I would have thought that M-Audio Solaris and Studio Projects C4 are the most obvious choices at the cheaper end. And yes John - it is obvious!!!!
 
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