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Kerose
New member
it seems like the only way i can get my levels up to around 0db when recording vocals is by turning it up to the point where it records a lot of static too, what am i doing wrong
d.bop
New member
In the digital world, you don't need to record that loud.
A lot of consumer and "prosumer" grade interfaces and preamps can give some pretty clean results UNTIL they reach a certain point when a lot of noise starts coming in (which is probably what you're experiencing.) I've run into this a few times myself.
From personal experience/preferance, I find that tracking at around -12dbFS is a good starting point. Though it's totally up to you.
Try that and see if it helps. If not, it could be some type of interference coming from other electronic devices.
A lot of consumer and "prosumer" grade interfaces and preamps can give some pretty clean results UNTIL they reach a certain point when a lot of noise starts coming in (which is probably what you're experiencing.) I've run into this a few times myself.
From personal experience/preferance, I find that tracking at around -12dbFS is a good starting point. Though it's totally up to you.
Try that and see if it helps. If not, it could be some type of interference coming from other electronic devices.
buckkillr8
David Gilmour's clone
Dbop has it. Your levels should be around -18db or so. Anything beyond -12 is just causing you to lose headroom for your mixing stage. Background noise depends a lot on your recording location and acoustic treatment of that location.
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Kerose
New member
if i have the input at -12db when i record, Sonar doesn't even hardly register it, i can have it turned down to the point where i hear no noise, and then do my verse and the levels won't quite hit 0db, if i turn up the gain on the Fast Track Pro a little till i hear more noise, i can record at a level that will trigger sonar at about 0db and will be loud without clipping, but then i also pick up the "static", if i record quiet enough so that sonar shows no background noise, and i also can't hear any, wehn i record my vocals, i can hardlly hear myself and sonar doesn't even hardly register a waveform cuz it's so quiet
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Kerose
New member
what do you mean by losing headroom, anything below -12 in sonar is hardly audible, i have got to be missing something very fundamental
buckkillr8
David Gilmour's clone
well what interface are you using, what mic, etc. You could have a weak mic or not so great preamps. Any combination like that will show in the output.
What I meant about losing headroom is the idea way to track is around the -18db level. This gives you plenty of "headroom" to use in the mixing and mastering stages of recording. For instance if you track at near clipping, then you have nothing left when it comes to mix everything down, you'll be clipping by that point.
What I meant about losing headroom is the idea way to track is around the -18db level. This gives you plenty of "headroom" to use in the mixing and mastering stages of recording. For instance if you track at near clipping, then you have nothing left when it comes to mix everything down, you'll be clipping by that point.
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Kerose
New member
i have a MXL V63M, and M-Audio Fast Track Pro
i have recorded tracks before and just dealt with the noise, but what i normally do, using sonar, is i import my beat, i do hip hop, and i set the levels so that they are as loud as it goes without clipping, so around 0db, and i record my vocals on a separate track, basically doing the same thing, each individual track is not clipping, i never notice any clipping on the master track either, if so i would decrease the levels slightly, see, i don't need i guess a lot of "headroom", i've only got like 2 or 3 tracks playing at a time, since my instruments track was premixed in my other program Reason
buckkillr8
David Gilmour's clone
Well you do need that headroom for a proper mixdown later on. I'm no expert some I'm sure others would be more helpful but let's call your "beats" your backing track. When you import that onto track 1 lets say you should leave the fader at unity "0" and have all your other tracks go on that. During your mix down you bring those levels up due to adding comp, limiters, etc. to the master and each track (plugins)
The mic you have is decent so I'm sure the problem probably isn't the mic. I know nothing about the interface or how good the preamps in it are. Someone that uses it could chime in and be more helpful on that. If you're truly barely hearing anything at proper -18 to -12db tracking levels then something somewhere is wrong. Start simple and look at obvious things like a bad mic cable, whether the interface is supplying the right amount of phantom power or not, etc.
The mic you have is decent so I'm sure the problem probably isn't the mic. I know nothing about the interface or how good the preamps in it are. Someone that uses it could chime in and be more helpful on that. If you're truly barely hearing anything at proper -18 to -12db tracking levels then something somewhere is wrong. Start simple and look at obvious things like a bad mic cable, whether the interface is supplying the right amount of phantom power or not, etc.
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Kerose
New member
when you are talking tracking levels, please clarify, cuz i must be misunderstanding, how can you even tell what you are recording at that level, if i have my track and the meter is showing -18db to -12db, then i have to crank my devices output full blast to hear anything on my headphones, i mean i can hear it just fine and everything, but recording is a problem and i just don't see how anybody can mix at such a low level, i can't pick out any nuances, i'ma have my friend friday bring over his MXL 4000 and see how that sounds
could the fact that i have my Fast Track Pro running off of USB power effect my phantom power and cause some shitty noise
buckkillr8
David Gilmour's clone
I can't say for sure if running it like that would cause problems. When I "track" meaning record my levels never really go about -18db and I can hear everything just fine. When you mix everything down you hear all those things because you're playing them through monitors that are specified just for hearing all the little nuances. This is why I said you definitely got to have a problem somewhere in your setup.
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Kerose
New member
sorry, maybe one last poke here,
if i have my beat/instrument track at 0, and i am recording my vocal track at -12db, how the heck can you hear what you are singing or in my case "spitting" over the other track, i can change my headphone mix more to the input rather than playback but that still doesn't actually change the levels, it just changes what i am hearing in my ear. in order for sonar to not "see" or hear extra noise, i don't want to see any green "bouncing" around, at that level i can not really hear myself in the headphones even with no track playing in the background, that's how you record vocals though, i like to hear my beat loud in my ears and same with my vocals, i will look into a few of these things we discussed though, i appreciate the input, i will see how things go tonight when i try to solve a few of these mysteries
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mixsit
Well-known member
You seem to be discribing background noise that is present and relative to the volume (at the mic) with your voice- This relative amount of noise won't change with how hot you track, or whether you turn it up before or later in Sonar. If that's the case you need to get away from the noise, get some isolation, or get closer/sing louder.
Farview
Well-known member
If you can't hear your vocals at -12, you have everything else WAY too loud.
Chances are someone decided to 'master' the beat, so it is as loud as a commercial CD, that's bad. Since the beat isn't the finished product, it shouldn't be mastered until the vocal is on it. Don't try to have a finished product until you are finished.
Please realize that there is a difference between recording level and monitoring level. Turn the music down so you can hear yourself when recording at the proper level. Then mix it so it sounds right and then master it.
d.bop
New member
When you import your beats/backing music/whatever else, you can adjust the trim/gain or fader in your DAW so it peaks at -12dbFS or -18dbFS or wherever you like your headroom to be.
This sets it up for mixing later on so you can start with every track at approximately the same volume (aka you can hear everything equally). If you can't hear it very well, then just turn up your monitors. A lot of people forget about that little knob on their interface and/or monitors when they think the track is "too quiet."
Hope that helps a little.
This sets it up for mixing later on so you can start with every track at approximately the same volume (aka you can hear everything equally). If you can't hear it very well, then just turn up your monitors. A lot of people forget about that little knob on their interface and/or monitors when they think the track is "too quiet."
Hope that helps a little.
noisewreck
New member
Kerose said:
You are shooting youself in the foot by having your beat peak at 0db. Once you start adding other instruments and voice, your outputs are going to go over. Not only that, as you say, you can't hear what the heck you're singing.
Pull down on the beat. I do industrial/electronic stuff such as D'n'b and personally I never have my bass/drum track go beyond -8db to -6db tops.
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intomusic
New member
Sorry to chime in here and I know this has been written about loads here but can I just get it clear:
When everyone says 'track at -18db' etc does that mean the track volume bar (I'm using GarageBand) is set at that level and I should make sure the levels when I record don't go above -18db or that I should just make sure my levels don't go above -18db without physically adjusting the track level bar? Does this make sense? Because there's a volume set bar on the track, right? So I can pull that down to -18db but still get the levels going up to -0db...I'm confused...
(Sorry to add a question to someone else's post but it's quite relevant to me too.)
intomusic
When everyone says 'track at -18db' etc does that mean the track volume bar (I'm using GarageBand) is set at that level and I should make sure the levels when I record don't go above -18db or that I should just make sure my levels don't go above -18db without physically adjusting the track level bar? Does this make sense? Because there's a volume set bar on the track, right? So I can pull that down to -18db but still get the levels going up to -0db...I'm confused...
(Sorry to add a question to someone else's post but it's quite relevant to me too.)
intomusic
buckkillr8
David Gilmour's clone
When you arm a track to record, you want whatever you play to peak around -18db to -12db somewhere in that area. Meaning if you arm a track for guitar, your loudest playing will peak in that level.
Massive Master
www.massivemastering.com
Recording levels: http://www.massivemastering.com/blog/html/blog_files/Proper_Audio_Recording_Levels.html
Monitor calibration: http://www.massivemastering.com/blog/html/blog_files/Calibrating_Your_Monitoring_Chain.html
Room setup (which should really be first on the list): http://www.massivemastering.com/blog/html/blog_files/Basic_Room_Setup.html
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intomusic
New member
Great links!
Very useful indeed
And thanks Buckkillr8
intomusic
Very useful indeed
And thanks Buckkillr8
intomusic
K
Kerose
New member
okay, but the "beat" that i add IS the only music on the track, i do all the instrumentation in Reason, i don't do live instruments or nothing like that, i have a buddy who plays guitar on tracks but i always, sample that stuff and rework it in Recycle and Reason, so when i am importing my beat into Sonar, that is the finished musical arrangement, everything else added to sonar is all vocals, i will still set that track at lower then, since i am going to be tracking my vocals lower than i have in the past,
so then, in REason there is a Mastering Suite, with compression, limiters, eq, and the like, do you suggest not using that and just making the adjustments on the sonar end of things. I will still probably EQ because i may have conflicting sounds and whatnot from different instruments which i can't adjust individually once it is mixed down to sonar
In other words, do everything that I CAN do in Sonar, not in Reason, since all that stuff will affect my final mix in sonar??
so then, in REason there is a Mastering Suite, with compression, limiters, eq, and the like, do you suggest not using that and just making the adjustments on the sonar end of things. I will still probably EQ because i may have conflicting sounds and whatnot from different instruments which i can't adjust individually once it is mixed down to sonar
In other words, do everything that I CAN do in Sonar, not in Reason, since all that stuff will affect my final mix in sonar??