Mic cable causing distortion?

[travelin travis]

I only have one mic cable at this time and its a cheapo that came with a cheapo recording package from Musicians Friend, most of which I'm sending back, except the mic. I also only have one mic, mxl990, also a cheapo. When I track vocals with the 990 into an audiobuddy, it sounds clean, not even a hint of distortion, same with acoustic guitar.

When I try to track electric guitar, via the xlr outs of my duoverb amp, or by micing the amp with the 990, I got this top end distortion. I have the trim on my xlr outs set very low, on a scale from 1 to 10, about 2. Same with the preamp gain on the audiobuddy. I have tried different volume and gain settings but that distortion is always there. I have tried this going into my onboard sound and my 1010LT card. I'm only peaking at around -6 db just to be safe, so I know I'm not clipping, but, that's what it sounds like, clipping. I'm using a good quality instrument cable and when I play through my amp, I don't hear anything wrong. I posted a clip so maybe someone could tell me if it could be the mic cable or something else I have'nt thought of. In the clip, the first part is miced, the second part is direct xlr outs. Heres the clip (distortion problem):

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/1/travisthompsonmusic.htm

I'm pretty sure this is the cable but I'm not sure why it does it with the amp and not vocals/acoustic guitar. I would like to find some decent low budget mic and instrument cables. Any reccommendations? I have read that assembling them yourself is the way to go but I don't know what cable and connectors would be right for me or a reputable retailer to get them from. I would be willing to spend like $20 for a decent 20' XLR cable. Could I assemble my own good quality cables this at this price?

One more thing, I must start listening to the wise people on this bbs; Buy cheap, buy twice. It's so very true!

 

[boingoman]

It sounds like maybe a combo of things to me. That first part sounded OK to me, like some natural amp grit, but then I don't know what it sounds like coming from the amp.

Is your card set to +4, and not -10?

The direct out might reveal a part of the amp sound that is getting filtered out by the speaker. And the mic may be clipping. Sounds like the amp is fairly loud.

 

[travelin travis]

The amp is set with a little bit of drive in the first half of the clip, which is miced via the 990. The second half is a plexi setting with drive at full, from the xlr outs. I hear the distortion/clipping on both parts of the clip. I don't think it can be the mic if it is also happening through the xlr outs. I don't here it at all through the amp's speakers. Like I said, during the direct out part of the clip, the trim output is set very low, like on 2. During the miced part, the amp is'nt up very loud, at 2. I also try changing the 1010lt's input levels from -10 to below. Has anyone else listened to the clip? What do you think?

 

[apl]

It may be your audiobuddy defaults to a mic pre when plugging in the XLR which would be overloaded by your line level amp signal.

 

[travelin travis]

the xlr outs of the duoverb amp are mic level. they were designed to go straight to mic channels on a mixer. man this is killin me.

 

[apl]

the xlr outs of the duoverb amp are mic level. they were designed to go straight to mic channels on a mixer. man this is killin me.

Oh, OK. Can you run it into a mixer and headphones to get the audiobuddy out of the loop, just to eliminate that possibility? Or borrow a mic cable that you know is good?

 

[travelin travis]

I don't know anyone that has a mic cable that I can borrow but I did try something else. The 1010LT has 2 XLR mic inputs. I ran out of the amp from the direct xlr out to the mic input of the 1010lt, bypassing the audiobuddy. I still get that nasty clipping sound but its not as bad. The 1010lt has jumper settings to set the mic input level and mine is set at +30 db, which is supposedly mic level gain. I also tried using a very low gain for the mic input in the m-audio soft mixer. I tried it with headphones too. I'm ordering some new gear including a couple of decent cables so I guess I will find out when that stuff gets here.

I still would like to know about assembling my own cables though. I have soldered a few things here and there and I'm pretty sure I still have my solder gun some where. Anyone have any experience doing this?

 

[Bob's Mods]

Trav, makin your own cables is the best way to go as far as getting the best quality for the lowest dollars. Go to Parts Express for all that you need to get the job done. Yes, cable quality is a factor and the differences in length and quality can be heard.

www.parts-express.com

I've made many of my own. Generally, no matter how good your cable is, length matters. As I'm a spare bedroom recordist I do not need long lengths. My default length is 12 feet. You will retain better high end definition.

Download a Mackie mixer manual PDF. They explain construction.

Bob

 

[apl]

...cable quality is a factor and the differences in length and quality can be heard...

Hi, Bob. Some would disagree.

 

[lpdeluxe]

It's not possible for a cable to introduce distortion. It's a length of wire.

 

[Bob's Mods]

Your ability to hear the difference is somewhat dependant on the quality of the other components in your system. My system is sensitive to small changes so I can hear it. Also, better cables have lower stray capacitance and inductance which are responsible for creating a natural filter effect.

This issue has been an on going debate in newsgroups. Generally, negative effects of crappy cables are less where the length is short. The crappier the cable and the longer it is, the worse the filtering becomes and the more noticable the problem is. Remember, recording is the sum of many small right things that make a better recording. There is no one element in the chain that will make your system go from audiophile to high end studio. Everything in the chain is a factor, cables being only one element. If you can't hear the difference between a crappy long cable and a quality one, then there is something else in your chain that is masking it.

Bob

 

[lpdeluxe]

Without reigniting that debate, the fact is that there are so many potential sources for distortion in the chain (faulty components, gain staging & whatnot) that I would think that the mic cable would the LAST thing to worry about. With all due respect, Travisinflorida doesn't seem to have a clear idea of whether he has distortion coming from any particular place. My vote is for something being cranked along the way (gain staging) rather than somehow intuitively jumping on the least likely element in the chain as the culpit. I have NEVER heard distortion attributable to a mic cable, but maybe that's just me. In any case, I think analyzing the source of the distortion is preferable to chasing rats down holes.

 

[boingoman]

It's not possible for a cable to introduce distortion. It's a length of wire.

A cold solder joint on a connector could, though.

 

[boingoman]

I don't know anyone that has a mic cable that I can borrow but I did try something else. The 1010LT has 2 XLR mic inputs. I ran out of the amp from the direct xlr out to the mic input of the 1010lt, bypassing the audiobuddy. I still get that nasty clipping sound but its not as bad. The 1010lt has jumper settings to set the mic input level and mine is set at +30 db, which is supposedly mic level gain. I also tried using a very low gain for the mic input in the m-audio soft mixer. I tried it with headphones too. I'm ordering some new gear including a couple of decent cables so I guess I will find out when that stuff gets here.

I still would like to know about assembling my own cables though. I have soldered a few things here and there and I'm pretty sure I still have my solder gun some where. Anyone have any experience doing this?

Okay- first off, you should try your tests again with the same amp settings for micing and line in. Troubleshooting anything works best when you only change one factor at a time. If you go from clean to dirty and micing to direct in it is hard to tell where the problem is.

But first before that, set your jumper to a lower gain level, +30 db is a lot of gain, you are probably clipping your soundcard inputs.

 

[Bob's Mods]

Without reigniting that debate, the fact is that there are so many potential sources for distortion in the chain (faulty components, gain staging & whatnot) that I would think that the mic cable would the LAST thing to worry about. With all due respect, Travisinflorida doesn't seem to have a clear idea of whether he has distortion coming from any particular place. My vote is for something being cranked along the way (gain staging) rather than somehow intuitively jumping on the least likely element in the chain as the culpit. I have NEVER heard distortion attributable to a mic cable, but maybe that's just me. In any case, I think analyzing the source of the distortion is preferable to chasing rats down holes.

You are right IP, my mistake. I got off on the wrong track with his question.

Cables can effect quality but not out and out distortion.

Bob

 

[livilaNic]

Without reigniting that debate, the fact is that there are so many potential sources for distortion in the chain (faulty components, gain staging & whatnot) that I would think that the mic cable would the LAST thing to worry about. With all due respect, Travisinflorida doesn't seem to have a clear idea of whether he has distortion coming from any particular place. My vote is for something being cranked along the way (gain staging) rather than somehow intuitively jumping on the least likely element in the chain as the culpit. I have NEVER heard distortion attributable to a mic cable, but maybe that's just me. In any case, I think analyzing the source of the distortion is preferable to chasing rats down holes.

I agree with the gain staging. Messing with three different settings.

The gain and master of the buddy. And the Delta input gain. There has to be some kind of level between them that your tweaking a lil' too much.

This took me awhile to fig. this out as well. With my Yamaha MG10/2. I wasn't sure if I should crank the mixer or the soundcard input? In in the end it seemed better to 1/3 the gain on the mixer and 1/2 on the input gain for the card. Sounds nice and clean. Mic placement could play a factor as well.
Hope you get this working.


Your bluesy shit r0x.



L8er,
livilaNic

 

[travelin travis]

could be the gain staging but remember, it does this through my onboard sound also. that puts the 1010lt out of the picture. it does it both with a mic and xlr out from the amp. I will have some new cables this week, so i will be able to eliminate that. the reason I thought it could be the cable is that it is cheap, skinny as hell, and very flimsy.

bob's mods, thanks for the link. have you tried the proco or dayton cable from there? thats what I'm looking at.

 

[ch2os7]

I agree

I hear the distortion and it does sound like Digital clipping. On the other hand, I want to congratulate you on some clean sounding acoustic work. I was listening on some inexpensive headphones but it sounded really clean. That was through the mxl990? hmmm, I need to take a new look at that mic.

 

[livilaNic]

could be the gain staging but remember, it does this through my onboard sound also. that puts the 1010lt out of the picture. it does it both with a mic and xlr out from the amp. I will have some new cables this week, so i will be able to eliminate that. the reason I thought it could be the cable is that it is cheap, skinny as hell, and very flimsy.

bob's mods, thanks for the link. have you tried the proco or dayton cable from there? thats what I'm looking at.

What kind of amp is it? Could it be the amp? Have you tried DI'ing from the buddy? I tend to get good sounds DI'ing guitar> MG10/2> Soundcard. I got me a cheap ass cord as well Ernie Ball 20 ft. it was like 9 bucks.

Anyway if you get this fixed can you tell us what you did to fix it? Thx.

I got a clean sound up at sound click check it out.
http://www.soundclick.com/util/streamM3U.m3u?ID=2222910&q=Hi



L8er,
livilaNic

 

[travelin travis]

I'm hoping to hell this is'nt an issue with my amp.

the 990 is my first condensor and I'm having a love/hate relationship with it right now. it works ok for some of my vocals, after cutting some lows and boosting some highs, but does'nt seem to work well in some mixes for my voice. it's doing ok for acoustic guitar but I do have to cut some of the lows there too. If I was to do it over again, I think I would skip the 990 and get a v67g. I don't have one yet but it will be my next mic. maybe I just need more time playing around with the 990 though.

livilanic, amplitube sounds pretty good. is there a noticeable latency with it? I can't run it because my cpu does'nt support MME, whatever the hell that is. I have an old 1.4 ghz thunderbird cpu. it might be worth spending $60 for an xp cpu to run it though. can you post some marshall tube amp models? also, have you used your keyboard as a midi controller yet?

*forgot to mention I pulled the Distortion Problem audio clip*