metal recording

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marioantigod

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hi,
i do metal recordings. play guitar and sing.
could somebody explain how to deal with input gain in tascam 122L?
at 12 oclock my sm57 (with xlr cable) is almost unnoticeable, at 3 oclock it's better, but on higher voice or guitar amp volumes clipping occurs in garageband software(peak reaches red). at 5 oclock, or more u guess it?.. even more clipping if i scream into mic, especially if from closer distance.
how to deal with this? it is too sensitive to higher volumes or too weak when gain knob is turned low.
thanks
 
I must be missing somethng ?? That's how mics and gain work - Turn the gain up when you're recording quiet things, turn it down when you record something loud. Dont track too hot, shoot for -18 or -15db when tracking, with peaks up in the -12db range. Maybe 'unnoticable' is in a good range, just quieter than you're expecting?
 
thanks for answer.
but i dont get it, what do u mean "Maybe 'unnoticable' is in a good range, just quieter than you're expecting"??
if my knob is at 3 ocklock, my recording through my sm57 is very quiet in garageband with all sliders at 0db, while other tracks, like drum loops are ok.
should i record this way and then increase dbs, and decrease on drum loops to even out? or do u mean that all my recording must sit around -12?
do u mean that this area is safe and decreasing to -15 or -18 will give best security for louder recording?
..but it is very quiet, and how i should export it for full volume for cd?

could u explain how those things get done?

thanks, green guitar.
 
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This is excatly what you should do. If the drums are too loud compared to the guitars, then you need to either turn the guitars up or turn the drums down. That's pretty much what mixing is.

As long as when you play the entire song back with everything mixed it doesn't clip anywhere, then you are good.

You will however notice that your songs are much quieter than other professionally made songs. That's a differnt topic altogether. Once you get the mixing thing down, then you can worry about that.
 
If youre clipping a track, that's too hot. I say set each individual track to about -15, cuz when you get a bunch of them, they'll all add up right around zero. You won't have to do much to get the final mix coming in close to zero (full volume).
 
You will however notice that your songs are much quieter than other professionally made songs. That's a differnt topic altogether. Once you get the mixing thing down, then you can worry about that.

ey ey ey. you stoped where i needed u most. please explain shortly how u achieve required volume for final cd.

so i got to set each track's volume slider to -15 in garageband, and then adjust input gain knob for mic on tascam so no red clipping appears?
and then hope that all recorded tracks will give me my precious 0 before i output them on cd? of course i can adjust dbs of individual tracks a bit after recording to get closer to that zero.
what is happening to recording quality when tracks' sliders or master slider is cranked up over 0 to increase overall sound? of course also avoiding clipping.

thanke shuln
 
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Yeah, that IS the way. On the track side at least. 10 tracks at -15 come in at about zero with all the faders at 0. If a project only has like 5 tracks or something, maybe you can push em to -10 or something. That's just basic mixing..

Then there's the main mix side - you can always push your master fader up too. Then you can compress and limit your master, you can push your master fader up even more. If you do it right your master would still peak around zero, but your RMS will be higher, so your final mix sound louder. Too much will distort your final mix, but there's a happy medium there. Experiment with it, you'll see!
 
what he said. Basically, when mixing, you don't need to concern yourself with the overall level of the song. Once you are done mixing, then you can bring the volume up.

The quickest easiest way to do this is to stick a limiter on the master buss. That will allow you to get it louder without clipping. Again, don't worry about this part until your mix is already done.
 
If youre clipping a track, that's too hot. I say set each individual track to about -15, cuz when you get a bunch of them, they'll all add up right around zero. You won't have to do much to get the final mix coming in close to zero (full volume).

Hi.

Just a quick question from someone with really little experience on recording:

I have read somewhere that you should have the highest and clearest sound going into the recording device when you are recording;

To me this means getting the highest possible volume without clipping so you'll have more information to work with later. Like having a really good photo to work on photoshop, one that will allow you to work contrasts and colors to a deeper level.

How does this relate with the volumes after mixing question?

I mean, should we really record as loud as possible without clipping, or should we record a little lower so we can get some margin later?

I don't know if I'm being clear here, maybe there's no point on this question to someone who's experienced with recording, but I would like to understand this.
 
The quickest easiest way to do this is to stick a limiter on the master buss.

i used compressor wherever i can in my gband. i like that devices, cause they even out the sound. i also use a boss cs3. but i will try to use limiter also on master track.
thanks guys
 
so i got to set each track's volume slider to -15 in garageband, and then adjust input gain knob for mic on tascam so no red clipping appears?

NO you got it the wrong way! Adjust the gains on the tascam, so that the tracks are peaking out at around -15 in gband. You want the tracks, the actual waveforms, to have -15 peaks. On the input side. Forget about faders and mixing for now, you need to track at a reasonable level first.

The difference between

faders at 0 and tracks at -15 (what I'm describing)
and
tracks at 0 and faders at -15 (what you said above)

is huge! If you crank the gain to just before clipping, thats way too hot. The first thing you'll have to do is pull all your faders back to about -15 to keep your main mix from clipping bigtime. Your gear is designed to run optimally in the -15 ballpark.
 
Hi.

Just a quick question from someone with really little experience on recording:

I have read somewhere that you should have the highest and clearest sound going into the recording device when you are recording;

To me this means getting the highest possible volume without clipping so you'll have more information to work with later. Like having a really good photo to work on photoshop, one that will allow you to work contrasts and colors to a deeper level.

How does this relate with the volumes after mixing question?

I mean, should we really record as loud as possible without clipping, or should we record a little lower so we can get some margin later?

I don't know if I'm being clear here, maybe there's no point on this question to someone who's experienced with recording, but I would like to understand this.

In theory, that is all true, but in practice, everything in recoring world is 10x overkill anyways. So the difference between having your signal peak at -6dB or -12dB is like the difference between 4x overkill and 8x overkill.

You get far more dynamic range out of gear these days than anyone could ever know what to do with.
 
I have read somewhere that you should have the highest and clearest sound going into the recording device when you are recording

I've heard that too, but it is definitely NOT true, at least not now. That MAY have been true back in the cassette days or something, when bandwidth was real scarce, IDK.. It seems logical to want the highest possible snr, so maybe that's the basis for a rumor that was never true to begin with.
 
I've heard that too, but it is definitely NOT true, at least not now. That MAY have been true back in the cassette days or something, when bandwidth was real scarce, IDK.. It seems logical to want the highest possible snr, so maybe that's the basis for a rumor that was never true to begin with.

So you recommend to have the volume going into the recording device somewhere (still far) bellow clipping point?

I mean, even with the bandwith that one can get nowadays, wouldn't it be better to get the most possible information into the recording device for that track we'll be using for the rest of the project?

Or perhaps what you're saying is that recording hardwares/softwares nowadays capture an amount of detail we can't even notice even if recorded at low volumes, so recording with a low volume wouldn't take away noticeable information in the final product?

Thanks for answering.
 
The difference between
faders at 0 and tracks at -15 (what I'm describing)
and
tracks at 0 and faders at -15 (what you said above)
is huge! If you crank the gain to just before clipping, thats way too hot. The first thing you'll have to do is pull all your faders back to about -15 to keep your main mix from clipping bigtime. Your gear is designed to run optimally in the -15 ballpark.

thanks for correcting and saving me. THANKS FOR YOUR METICULOUS ATTENTION. now please explain how do i know that my gain is set to around -15, while my tracks' sliders are at 0? i have a green led bar( i mean peak indicator led on each track) jumping horizontaly like hell in gband, so how would i know that it is at -15 while im adjusting gain on tascam and shouting in my mic? where is that indicator (number etc) that states that my track is at -15, while slider is at 0. how do i know that im working in that "the -15 ballpark"?? sliders have numbers, but indicator doesnt. it only flashes..

<<<<<<could u just simply explain step by step what u do:
1. connect tascam and all wires to computer
2. launch gband
3. set input /output hardware for gband
4. ??
that would really help, and not only for me.>>>>>>>>>>>


and after recording u suggest to move sliders to -15 to avoid overall mix's clipping?

maybe u guys have more secret tips about gband?

i cant start proper recording without understanding those things.

thanks very much
 
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about bass

guys.
i started to think about bass more then i started create my own music. i play guitar, not bass and sing and trying to gather a metal band.

the thing is that i would like to know, how bass substitutes another guitar in for ex 3 piece band and what gear(pedals, effects or what?) is being used on live playin?
in ex. pantera's bass fills everything when dimebag used to play solos.
the same is for ozzy's, van halen band. and lots of others.
bass sounds as bass and also kinda emulates another guitar next to itself.

what are tricks in real world and in recording to make bass substitute another guitar and sound like another guitar??

and also please answer my first q about track levels.
many many f thanks.
 
I've heard that too, but it is definitely NOT true, at least not now. That MAY have been true back in the cassette days or something, when bandwidth was real scarce, IDK.. It seems logical to want the highest possible snr, so maybe that's the basis for a rumor that was never true to begin with.

Quote:I have read somewhere that you should have the highest and clearest sound going into the recording device when you are recording.

That was a truism in the analog world. You needed to get as much signal as possible to get above the noise floor and enhance dynamic range.
 
thanks for correcting and saving me. THANKS FOR YOUR METICULOUS ATTENTION. now please explain how do i know that my gain is set to around -15, while my tracks' sliders are at 0? i have a green led bar( i mean peak indicator led on each track) jumping horizontaly like hell in gband, so how would i know that it is at -15 while im adjusting gain on tascam and shouting in my mic? where is that indicator (number etc) that states that my track is at -15, while slider is at 0. how do i know that im working in that "the -15 ballpark"?? sliders have numbers, but indicator doesnt. it only flashes..

Well, I can't answer specifically for the Tascam, but in Cubase, the mixer has INPUT levels, and TRACK levels. The input levels are what the interface is seeing. The track levels are the levels of the tracks in your mix, after they've been recorded, after all fx, and post fader. IF you have no fx, and your fader is at zero, then the track level is equal to the input level when you recorded it.

If you can't monitor the input levels directly like in Cubase, then set your fader to zero and play, and try to get your track level peaking at -15.

<<<<<<could u just simply explain step by step what u do:
1. connect tascam and all wires to computer
2. launch gband
3. set input /output hardware for gband
4. ??
that would really help, and not only for me.>>>>>>>>>>>

That's right, #4 would be to set your gain, shooting for -15, hitting record, and recording the track!

and after recording u suggest to move sliders to -15 to avoid overall mix's clipping?

No, that's the idea of TRACKING at -15. If your tracks are recorded at a lower level, you won't need to touch your faders, it'll just all kinda fall into place. Besides some minor tweaking, your levels will be very close to good right off the bat.
 
the thing is that i would like to know, how bass substitutes another guitar in for ex 3 piece band and what gear(pedals, effects or what?) is being used on live playin?
in ex. pantera's bass fills everything when dimebag used to play solos.
the same is for ozzy's, van halen band. and lots of others.
bass sounds as bass and also kinda emulates another guitar next to itself.

what are tricks in real world and in recording to make bass substitute another guitar and sound like another guitar??

I've seen pantera a buncha times, (rip dimebag :( ) when dimebag started into one of his fuckin awesome guitar solos, there's a huge hole in the sound, they never had a backing track or a 2nd guitarist or anything. Totally overdubbed in the studio. Maybe you could run the bass thru a distortion pedal and run a parallel bass / distorted bass thru a 2nd amp or something, but they never did. I'm not sure how I'd go about that, every band I was ever in had 2 (or 3) guitarists. Get a 2nd guitarist, give the singer a drop tuned guitar (even my 9yo daughter can do that!), get a click track with backing guitars, there's options.
 
Maybe you could run the bass thru a distortion pedal and run a parallel bass / distorted bass thru a 2nd amp or something, but they never did.

yes, i think exactly the same. ill try to find out more about this and post here.
thanks
 
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