Metal Guitar Tone - Critiques please!

[metalhead28]

I am in the process of scrapping a bunch of projects in order to start them over with some new software , the one constant when I do all the upgrades will probably be the guitar sound that I'm used to getting now. I thought I would post a short clip to get some critiques before I commit to new recordings of all my old songs. This is strictly an in your face metal sound, and any advice/recommendations are welcomed!


guitar sound

 

[Pinky]

It may not have enough bottom end, definitely a healthy mid presence (where it should be). Could have a tiny bit more high end edge, more for definition once you start laying stuff over and around it in the mix.

 

[metalhead28]

Thanks, Pinky.
I sometimes avoid the bottom end for fear of muddying up everything and I probably avoided it too much in this example. I will try to watch that a little closer, thanks!

 

[Dogman]

I am in the process of scrapping a bunch of projects in order to start them over with some new software , the one constant when I do all the upgrades will probably be the guitar sound that I'm used to getting now. I thought I would post a short clip to get some critiques before I commit to new recordings of all my old songs. This is strictly an in your face metal sound, and any advice/recommendations are welcomed!


guitar sound

Well, I must say, way cool tone. I liked it much. The palm mutes came across very well. You might try and refine it a bit if you want, but man, that sounds pretty damn good to me.
Ed

 

[Wireneck]

Sounds pretty good man, definitely has a certain sound. I've got to ask though, is it direct? haha I think the sound works for this style but it has a very "sterile" like quality to it. As I said, not a bad thing in this case.

 

[XLR]

Sounds good to me Metalhead. I think Pinky has a point about potentially benefiting from a little more high end depending on what it's over in a mix, but as it is it has a balanced tone and enough high-mid overtone clarity to let the quick rhythms come across with a distinct articulation. Be interesting to hear a sample where you play more in the upper register.

Tim

 

[metalhead28]

Thanks for the comments, Wireneck.
No, it's not direct. Here is the signal chain:
Jackson w/ seymour duncans>
Marshall JCM900/MarshallVS100>
Marshall 2x12 Lead Cab>
SM57 + AT3035>

There are 2 tracks per side of the JCM900 and 1 track per side of the VS100.
The VS100 is solid state and I use it for the more saturated aspect of the sound, as it does have a cool high gain sound but it is maybe a little harsh. Perhaps I'm using too much of that and it's lending a sterile sound to it. Too harsh in the upper mids? The sound I'm going for is one that can be listened to LOUD, so I often end up monitoring really loud, Perhaps I throw off my senses that way! I do notice more of an unusual sound to it when I listen at low volumes.
Appreciate the input!

 

[ecktronic]

I like the tone although it is maybe a little too crunchy. Could be a tad too much mids? Sounds pretty loud in the mix so the tone might sound fine at a lower volume in the mix.
Nice stuff. :jealous:

 

[Kainz]

Yeah, I would say it is a tad too upper-midrangey. Quite nice sound overall thou

 

[Zed10R]

I like the tone although it is maybe a little too crunchy.QUOTE]


There is no such thing as too crunchy. The only thing that comes to my mind is it doesn't sound very......full. I'm not sure how else to say it. It's like the sound itself somehow lacks depth. Like there's not much in between the high end and the low end....does that make ANY sense?? It could simply be the combination of tuning and Marshall though. But my sound is certainly not super killer shit your pants holy crap wicked by any means, so maybe I shouldn't talk.......I do think it is VERY tight, well defined, and cruchy. I love the cruchyness....

 

[ecktronic]

I like the tone although it is maybe a little too crunchy.QUOTE]


There is no such thing as too crunchy. The only thing that comes to my mind is it doesn't sound very......full. I'm not sure how else to say it. It's like the sound itself somehow lacks depth. Like there's not much in between the high end and the low end....does that make ANY sense?? It could simply be the combination of tuning and Marshall though. But my sound is certainly not super killer shit your pants holy crap wicked by any means, so maybe I shouldn't talk.......I do think it is VERY tight, well defined, and cruchy. I love the cruchyness....

Zed10R, you might be meaning that it is totally upfront because the way the mics were placed, right up at the grill im assuming.
Metalhead, a distant condensor mic palced a foot or so away could bring the depth that Zed10R thinks its missing.

 

[metalhead28]

I appreciate the comments everybody!
I do instrumental stuff, pretty busy, so I'm sure by the time I mixed all the lead guitars and things in I would end up cutting some frequencies out of that sound. Also probably be somewhat quieter in the mix too. I will try to get more opinions someday on a more "finished" project.

One bad habit of mine is flip-flopping all the time on what kind of sound I really like and want to achieve with my music. I would be interested to hear some metal fan's opinions on what artists/albums achieve the "quintessential" heavy guitar tone. I find myself listening to a new CD from time to time and saying "damn, I've got to get that quality into my sound somehow!" even tho it may not be possible on my budget, it helps to have a goal!
Any thoughts?

thanks-

 

[Calwood]

I just replied to this thread,..but somethin wierd happened so here goes again. If it double posts just ignore this one.

On the guitar tone,...it does sound direct,..a sound that i dont particularly care for. Probably due to the way you recorded it. I would advise as was stated earlier to try some distant micing. If you played these guitar parts at different times than one thing is very apparent,..you are VERY good at playing tight doubles,..so,..try some fullwash panning. Along with the distant mic's it will thicken up your tone alot.

I had similar problems as you do. I would hear this band or that bands tone and think "thats!" what I want to sound like. But ya know man,..it always seemed to be that no matter what guitar,..amp combo i used,..my sound was always the same. I play with the eq,..presence,..yadda yadda,..whatever knobs it had,..and i'd always end up sounding the same. Then I figured out,.."thats!" what I sound like. So,..i embraced that and worked on it,..and it's workin' out pretty good for me.
I dont know what my point is here,...but you asked for thoughts,..there ya go.

Take 'er easy
Calwood

One other thought,...its hard to tell if youve got THE tone your looking for without THE drums,..THE bass,..etc. thats going to be in the mix. Thats just my opinion.

 

[metalhead28]

yeah, that is 6 different performances
I have used the distant mics alot in the past but was always a little unhappy with the end results.Also, I always seemed to have more phase issues when doubling parts even if I got the two mics jiving really good on one take. When I did it that way i usually resorted to just one performance per side to avoid that. I will put a little more effort into it and see what I can get.
Thanks for the comments!

 

[Zed10R]

Zed10R, you might be meaning that it is totally upfront because the way the mics were placed, right up at the grill im assuming.
Metalhead, a distant condensor mic palced a foot or so away could bring the depth that Zed10R thinks its missing.

That's it exactly!! It does sound right up in your face...like I wanna take a few steps back to get a better perspective.....That's it!!

 

[Zed10R]

I would be interested to hear some metal fan's opinions on what artists/albums achieve the "quintessential" heavy guitar tone. I find myself listening to a new CD from time to time and saying "damn, I've got to get that quality into my sound somehow!" even tho it may not be possible on my budget, it helps to have a goal!
Any thoughts?

thanks-

Check out Strapping Young Lad's "Alien", and Meshuggah's "Nothing". I swear to the god of your choice that your jaw will drop and you will say, at least to yourself, HOLY SHIT.

 

[ecktronic]

yeah, that is 6 different performances
I have used the distant mics alot in the past but was always a little unhappy with the end results.Also, I always seemed to have more phase issues when doubling parts even if I got the two mics jiving really good on one take. When I did it that way i usually resorted to just one performance per side to avoid that. I will put a little more effort into it and see what I can get.
Thanks for the comments!

When using the distant mic technique you need to match up the phase of the distant mic and the close mics once they have been recorded. I always use the closest mic as the wave that stays still and move the distant mic track to line up in phase with the close mic tracks.
If you dont correct the phase diference you get a nasty chorusy/reverby/phasey sound which you def dont want for metal. When mixing in the distant mic only use a little bit of it, so you can just hear it. I would cut more lo end from the distant mic and maybe compress a little more.

To make it easier to mix i bounce the 2 close mics and distant mic together after apliying only a lo cut on the distant mic. Then i have one track that i can add effects to. or two if i double take.

 

[giraffe]

sounds really good, but it's missing 'something' in the low end (maby even low mids !?!?) that would give it that push.

 

[Sonixx]

excellent... playing is spot on and tight... is that actually double tracked?

 

[metalhead28]

thanks,
it is six tracks, actually