Mercenary selling out Neumann's

  • Thread starter Thread starter muzeman
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Some really interesting posts from some "younger" members (not including Harvey and myself; I'm a couple years older than even Harvey).

Some history: back in the days when "that picture" was actually taken, the US had what were known as "fair trade" laws, which allowed the manufacturers to set the retail price of their merchandise, and NO ONE could sell it for less; if you tried, the manufacturer yanked your franchise and would no longer sell to you. Bolex, the best 8 and 16 mm movie film camera maker (also german) was really strong about doing that. They even sent people around to stores to check on you to see if you were under selling. The idea was to "protect the merchants" so that no one sold for less and thus put someone else out of business. After WWII some companies in the US decided they wanted to become big marketing people but couldn't because of the fair trade laws that PREVENTED them from selling at discounts. SO, they got the congress (and courts) to declare the "fair trade" laws illegal and overturned them, on the grounds that this was better for the consumer, and it certainly has been. However, this HAS resulted in a lot of "mon and pop" stores going out of business. This brought on the beginning of big discounters and the current inexpensiveness of products in the US compared to the rest of the world (just ask some of the overseas people on this board who gets the best prices in the world). The practice of the old fair trade laws became known as "price fixing" and was declared to be illegal, as such. However, a company can get around that by simply not selling to anyone they don't want to but without saying that's the reason because, if the retailer wants to, they can sue the manufacturer (or rep) for price fixing and make a little money (the lawyers would get most anyway).

Anyway folks, what Fletcher is doing (and his attitude) is what got you the right to buy things cheaper here in this country. If you really want to pay higher prices then buy from Neumann.

There also used to be, in this country, something known as "blue laws". The law required any business that wasn't a restuarant or needed emergency service to close on sunday. NOBODY was open on sunday and if you tried, you were put in jail for it. Yep, right here in the good 'ol USA. Also, back in those days women stayed home and did most of the shopping (men couldn't because they were working during store hours except on saturdays and a lot of men had to work half days on saturdays). No grocery stores, no convenience stores, no apparell stores, nothing was open on sundays.

Tom
 
TERRORISM. n. The systematic use of violence and intimidation to achieve political ends.


QUOTE:............."I think Fletcher's "terror" accusations and Hitler comparisons are extremely inappropriate and historically incorrect. "

Hmm, I don't get your point, ausrock. Do you think Sennheiser/Neumann are threatening Fletcher's life? I don't think so, and that's what I mean by inappropriate.
 
DJL,

It has got that way, hasn't it........:) :)

Rossi,

1; In the English language, there is such a thing as "a figure of speech". I may be wrong but I think Fletcher was using the word "terrorism" in that manner.

2; Don't you think the definition of terrorism appliies to Herr Hitler? I thought it was quite "historically correct".


:cool:
 
Shailat said:

However, tell me how do you know that he is such a good engineer?

I lived and worked in Boston for 7 years. You figure it out.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
ausrock, terrorism sure does apply to Hitler's practices, but it hardly applies to Neumann's, and that's why I think he's historically incorrect. He establishes a parallel languagewise that is nonexistant in the real world. What his "figure of speech" suggests is that Neumann use Nazi methods. And I guess we all know that's not true. They're trying to enforce a price policy that's in fact fairly common.

You know, I'm 34, and ever since I can remember Hitler, the holocaust, and WWII have been on TV practically every day. There hasn't been a day when I wasn't at some point reminded of the Nazi crimes. It is a presence wherever I go, especially when I come to the US. "Where you come from" "Germany" "Ah...Germany..." Even though I'm obviously too young to have participated, people, unspokingly, make that connection. Why? Because, often enough, it's all they know about Germany. So it's quite understandable. Perhaps ironically, I never had problems with any of the Jews I met (I'm writing a dissertation on a Jewish writer btw). Why? Because they have thought about the topic, have some knowledge about Germany, and give you some credit for the dramatic changes that have taken place since WWII. And that's what bother's me with Fletcher's webpage. In a way it suggests that Neumann and - pars pro toto - Germany as a whole is still inhabited by Nazis. Which is not true and which is why my capability to discern humor in Fletcher's rant is limited. To any German that topic is not funny.
 
Light said:
I lived and worked in Boston for 7 years. You figure it out.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

Enlighten me...how does your living in Boston tell me you know if he is a good engineer. Not that it really matters but I'm curious to know......
 
All this energy would be better placed trying to remove South Park from television...
 
Recording Engineer said:
All this energy would be better placed trying to remove South Park from television...
'

thats the best show on TV, you freak:D
 
Hey you home recorders, you missed Fletchers most revealing statement. Ok, Fletch, what would be the name of those 10 microphones that are just as good as the U87Ai?

There are 10 microphones that do what they do, as well if not better, that are less expensive, and equally effective.
 
Middleman said:
Hey you home recorders, you missed Fletchers most revealing statement. Ok, Fletch, what would be the name of those 10 microphones that are just as good as the U87Ai?

I don't know about Fletcher, but I've never understood the fascination with the U87. It's fairly versitile, but I've ever been even close to bowled-over by it. I've always thought it was overpriced, and if the price is going up even further, I will definately never buy one.
 
I think he's probably referring to some Josephson, Brauner and Soundelux types.

BTW, to a certain extent I agree with Rossi about the price-fixing... with free prices you might pay less for some product, the product will probably become of lesser quality, since the competitors want to win too. Fuckin' free enterprise!
Remember the 70's, when a washing machine or a tape-deck was built to last? I have a mint running Marantz deck from '77, sure beats all my Kenwood, Aiwa and Sony crap from the 80's.
I also have an Akai deck from the late 70's/early 80's that still runs like a charm. Anyway, shit was built to last back then, but then we had the 80's recession (remember our friend Ronny Raygun) and suddenly metal frontplates were too expensive, so they made plastic ones.
Look for yourself in ads where people sell tape-decks. Most decks from the 80's will sell really cheap. Most decks from the 70's will sell way higher.
 
Shailat said:
Enlighten me...how does your living in Boston tell me you know if he is a good engineer. Not that it really matters but I'm curious to know......


Mercanary Audio's Address

I have worked with bands he has, and heard his work on thier albums.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Not that I'm all in favor of price fixing, but it does have some advantages. Apart from what Speeddemon says about quality issues, it also helps small dealers to compete with large retailers and internet shops. After all they're the ones that really take care of you when you run into trouble. So I think it's fair when a company tries to protect them. It's hard for us customers to resist ultra-low prices from an internet dealer. As I said, it's fairly common practice when it comes to upper scale equipment, at least in Europe. A Mesa Boogie will cost the same wherever you go, so you might as well go to your local dealer. From what I read on Fletcher's page Neumann doesn't even completely fix the prices; they just establish a minimum price. I still don't see Fletcher's problem. He's not very competitive when it comes to prices anyway. People buy from Fletcher because he's Fletcher and has a reputation of not selling crap and offering good service. Neumann's policy ought to help him compete with Sam Ash and other cheap places.
 
I just want the best deal, period. Also, one of the things I like about Studio Projects (unlike Neumann) SP is trying to get their dealer prices down. Oh, and I'd like to know what the other ten mic's are that Fletcher was talking about also?
 
DJL said:
I just want the best deal, period. Also, one of the things I like about Studio Projects (unlike Neumann) SP is trying to get their dealer prices down.
Yeah, and you know why?
Because you guys in the US pay $199 for a SP C1 and we in the Netherlands pay $399!!!
With the advent of internet these differences are quite clear and also with a little insight in shipping costs and custom, these prices are ridicoulous. Sure, Mr. Dutch SP salesman goes "Yeah, but if you buy in the US, you'll have to send it back and forth if the mic breaks, not so with us"... well, o.k. I don't mind paying $30-40 extra, but not DOUBLE the price.

Now, the difference on Neumann mics might be $50-200, but on a $2000 mic, that's only 10%, not 100%!!!
 
I think you may have missed my point. Neumann is trying to keep their prices rocket high, and I don't think their new crap, like the U87-Al's are worth that much money and either did M-A. And all I want is the best deal, period. Also, I was just saying... it's nice to at least see some manufactures and or dealers tying to bring their prices down, and I only used SP as a manufacture example, see the Aust thread. :)
 
Last edited:
"it's nice to at least see some manufactures and or dealers tying to bring their prices down, and I only used SP as a manufacture example, see the Aust thread"


There has been a deathly silence on that issue too.

:cool:
 
Middleman said:
Hey you home recorders, you missed Fletchers most revealing statement. Ok, Fletch, what would be the name of those 10 microphones that are just as good as the U87Ai?

The comment was actually made 'off the cuff'... but a quick mental search came up with this:

1) Soundelux "iFET-7"
2) Soundelux "U-195"
3) Brauner "Phantom C"
4) CAD "M-9"
5) Audio Technica "4050"
6) A couple of the 'Marshall Mics' I've tried but don't remember the model ##.
7) Sony "C-48"
8) Beyer "740"
9) AKG C414-EB (pre-p48)
10) A mic we're working on with Josephson that won't be out for a few months (so far, the prototypes have been pretty damn close to what we're striving to achieve... which will cost less, and have excellent application versatility than many microphones on the market that cost far more).

Shailat said:
However, tell me how do you know that he is such a good engineer?

I'm OK... nothing special. If you'd like to hear some stuff I've produced/engineered try this or this or check out any of the rec.audio.pro comiliation sets [I submitted a track on each of the 5 sets that have been released], or the FATcompilation set that was released by some of the members of the 'Musicplayer.com' site'

Rossi said:
Neumann's policy ought to help him compete with Sam Ash and other cheap places.

No. We have 2 locations. One in Foxboro, MA one on the internet Mercenary.com... Sam Ash has 35 locations, Guitar Center 110 locations.

We price things on our website at the price for which they are sold. We don't do "call for pricing" or any other bullshit along those lines.

"Minimum Advertised Price" is definitley applicable to ventures that use their website as an advertising vehicle... but for us, it's actually our store. The prices reflected on our site are the actual selling prices for the items in our store. You can't walk into one of our 110 locations and play "let's make a deal" ... so, if we are to be even remotely competetive with any of these chain stores on a commodity product [like the TLM-103] then we have to have the ability to post the prices at which the items are actually offered for purchase.

What Neumann/USA fails to realize is that because we run our site as our "main location" and not as an 'advertising vehicle' that their "MAP" policy places an undue disadvantage to our little 'mom and pop shop' [we have a staff of 4 full time, and 2 part time... that qualifies for 'mom and pop' status in my book].

We have been exploring a full 'internet/e-commerce' retail model... so far, it's worked pretty well. Over 40% of the orders we receive come in over the internet... which makes our website our 'store shelves'.

The Sam Ash/Guitar Center models allow the customer to 'negotiate' the price with the kid on the floor... our model does not permit such negotiation.

Now this could very well be a personal preference... but I would rather know what the fuckin' price of an item really is than having to break balls and negotiate.

By dictating the price at which we may offer an item for purchase on our website, they have effectively set the price for which that item may be purchased.

I guess we're just a pack of stubborn assholes as we're not going to change our entire business model to fit Neumann's definition of what our website is to them. To us, it's our store. End of story.
 
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