Mastering - is it worth it?

[pipelineaudio]

theres lots of people on this board willing to "trade " home mastering jobs. USE that resource before you attempt to master your own stuff. Its like trying to edit your own book! INSANE

 

[dobro]

pipeline, who do you know here who's traded homerec projects?

Next question: when it happens, what's the procedure? The other person listens once or twice and gives their advice? The other person listens ten times and tweaks the best they know how? Last question: isn't it a great big shot in the dark? How do you have *any* idea what the other person's listening/tweaking skills are like on your own music until you hear it? And even then - okay, here's another 'last' question - if you can't trust your own ears to master the stuff you've written, tracked and mixed, can you trust your own ears to evaluate someone else's mastering job on your own stuff?

 

[dobro]

"theres lots of people on this board willing to "trade " home mastering jobs. USE that resource before you attempt to master your own stuff. Its like trying to edit your own book! INSANE"

Okay, I want to comment on this too. I think there are some aspects of mastering I can achieve on my own material: overall levels, song order - obvious stuff. The stuff I don't trust myself with past the mixing stage is EQ, verb and compression.

 

[pipelineaudio]

"pipeline, who do you know here who's traded homerec projects?"

theres a few recent threads of people sending stuff to each other in this forum. Maybe there should be a LOT more of it going around...a truly valuable learning experience for all.

"Next question: when it happens, what's the procedure? The other person listens once or twice and gives their advice?"

I wouldnt think so

" The other person listens ten times and tweaks the best they know how?"

thats what Im figuring

" Last question: isn't it a great big shot in the dark? How do you have *any* idea what the other person's listening/tweaking skills are like on your own music until you hear it?"

thats the point, and I feel your fears, but this was my hypothesis: If you dont like what they did, DONT use it. But I bet, really and surely, that even if you dont like what they did, I bet itll be a fresh perspective, and maybe youll say " ah HAH!!!!" and have a whole new way of looking at your project, maybe even to the point where you might remix something

" And even then - okay, here's another 'last' question - if you can't trust your own ears to master the stuff you've written, tracked and mixed, can you trust your own ears to evaluate someone else's mastering job on your own stuff?"

THAT is a deep one! I'd say, as long as it was technically correct ( right sample rate, bit depth, no REALLY troublesome bass or treble, I sure think you can. As long as its technically correct, which is what you can be SURE of going to a good mastering facility, the rest is whether or not you care for the flavor. And at this stage you better go listen in a bunch of places.

"I think there are some aspects of mastering I can achieve on my own material: overall levels, song order - obvious stuff. The stuff I don't trust myself with past the mixing stage is EQ, verb and compression."

I think the sequencing, and editing , possibly even fades are things you can and should do yourself, assuming you can write the correct PQ's and such, but overall level, is a deeply tied into the compression and eq, so I wouldnt mess with that yourself

I just think it would be fun, educational, and a great show of community spirit, here on HR to do as much of this as we can, maybe even by comittee....I guess we need a BIG ASS FTP

 

[mixmkr]

Is it worth it?

If you are doing a demo? No.
If you are doing a commercial record which will hit the shops? Yes.

I think that is the answer, and I've yet to hear anything around here on its way to the "shops". A lot of good stuff...but it'll never leave here.....unfortunately.

home brew mastering...why not...? that's my crappy opinion. The worst that can happen is too much reverb (sound like a train station ), or 75% of the people will not be able to tell if you've changed anything or not anyway.

Pipeline...go dig up the ole mastering competition thread. You'll get a chuckle.

Then dig up the "reduced rate" offer [thread] from a "pro" just prior to that. That one was pathetic.

 

[dobro]

Pipeline, I suppose the entry would be to listen to what somebody's done with their own stuff in the mp3 clinic. I suppose further that another entry would be if somebody were collaborating with you on a project, they'd be much better disposed to spending the time required to mix it the way they thought it should be. Thing is, mixing takes me a *lot* of time at this stage, and I'm doing whole albums, so if I traded off with somebody, it sounds like it would take twice as long to do an album. Arrrghuck.

 

[Meshuggah]

This should be a sticky note at the top of the Mixing/Mastering forum....

Says it all, right there!

So.. you should trust your own ears while tracking, and still trust them when carefully mixing those tracks, but when it's down on two tracks, your song has arrived in the mumbo-jumbo-land of the secret society of the mastering wizards? You can't touch it anymore, since you'll halucinate and fall down dead if you do.



I can't see why anyone shouldn't take their best shot at some modest home mastering. Surely, one of the mastering wizards would make it better, but a good engineer would have done the tracking better, and surely would have done the mixing better. But why is it when it comes to mastering, it suddenly turns into a big NO-NO? If you just "mix it right and leave it alone" what will you learn? It's not like your house will catch fire if you try..

If your project is better off sent to a "real" mastering engineer, then it's also better off recorded in a real studio, with a real engineer. Hell, throw in a producer so it gets done right.
Dish up the cash, grasshopper... Oh, and while you're at it, go to an all analog studio, and make sure there are no chineese mics in there.

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

So.. you should trust your own ears while tracking, and still trust them when carefully mixing those tracks, but when it's down on two tracks, your song has arrived in the mumbo-jumbo-land of the secret society of the mastering wizards? You can't touch it anymore, since you'll halucinate and fall down dead if you do.

Er... not quite, Mesh -- I see where you're going with this, but A does not equal B, in this case...

The fact is, by the time you've done all those DIY processes, you're no longer objective to your own project.... you've grown accustomed to the way it sounds and anything you try to change in the mastering phase will be very subjective at best.... and one of the most important steps in mastering is objectivity.

Now - if you want to wait several months after mixing to master your own stuff, then you MAY have a shot at it......!

 

[Meshuggah]

I wait several months between every track I record to keep objective.

 

[Sonixx]

Not all Mastering is Equal... If you can find the right person for your music, that agrees basically with what you're after, then yes... else maybe not...

 

[Seanmorse79]

I usually wait several months between tracks too - usually because of lack of time - besides, I wouldn't want anymore housefires

 

[littledog]

The fact is, by the time you've done all those DIY processes, you're no longer objective to your own project.... you've grown accustomed to the way it sounds and anything you try to change in the mastering phase will be very subjective at best.... and one of the most important steps in mastering is objectivity.

While not exactly related to this topic, this reminds me a lot of a situation that happened to me. A producer brought a project to my studio - the singer was a talented amateur (actually, a former judge) who wanted to recreate some of the classic R&B love songs from her "youth". Everything from Delfonics to Minnie Riperton.

The producer had made up sequenced versions of the arrangements so that the singer could practice singing to them for a couple of months before the project even got to my studio. We retracked everything with real instruments, and she did her vocals in the studio.

But guess what? After being used to hearing the producer's sequences and practicing with them for months, she never really was convinced that the tracks sounded better with the "real" musicians. (Believe me, they were way better...) Another case of not being able to hear objectively by being too close to a project...

 

[Giganova]

Crayon --

why don't you download the demo version of Ozone II and master a song of yours to check out if mastering "is worth it". You'll be amazed how much bettaahh it sounds!

 

[pipelineaudio]

mixmkr I cant find the two threads you are talking about, maybe theyve deleted them by now ? Id love to see em

 

[sweetnubs]

sweetnubs

"The mastering process (professional, not home-grown), adds the final polish to really bring out the mix and make it sound the best it possibly can......"
-blueballs

come come now blueballs . . . . . what's this "professional, not home-grown thing" ? so you blackball me because i think home recordists are not capable of making professional recordings but you think only professionals can master? that's kind of oddball even for blueballs. of course i agree, but you can't have your cake and eat it too. Are home mastering "engineers" cutting in on your business? ok goofball get your cronies track ratard and alzheimer's to back you up on this one . . . christ i need another eightball i'm feeling behind the nineball, that happens when you are being lowballed.

nudists for nubs unite!

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Give it up, moron.... I've been posting the same comments about mastering since I've been here......

No one can do it ALL themselves effectively.... period.

Mastering isn't completely about gear, it's about having the objectivity to analyze/critique a mix (and of course, having the signal chain that allows you to REALLY hear a mix).... this is something that ANYONE (homerec'cer or pro) who is close to the project can't do.......

AND, to answer your question... use your fucking head - no - home-grown mastering IS NOT cutting into my business, since Blue Bear Sound is not a mastering facility.

 

[Seanmorse79]

...I love it when he does that

 

[ecs113]

Mastering isn't completely about gear, it's about having the objectivity to analyze/critique a mix (and of course, having the signal chain that allows you to REALLY hear a mix).... this is something that ANYONE (homerec'cer or pro) who is close to the project can't do.......

That's why dissociative mix+master engineers are so valuable.

 

[sweetnubs]

hiya pals. of course you if you used your critical thinking abilities while reading my post you would see i said i agreed with blue balls that mastering should not be done at home. i just wondered why he thought only mastering should be left to the professionals but anyone can engineer? seems like a legitimate question to me. hey nubskulls, of course i know mastering engineers have great ears, great equipment, well designed rooms that they know intimately. plus they know the market place extremely well. i always use mastering engineers, you going to trust yourself or someone who works on an album per day, 350 days per year and has been doing it for 20 years? that's why about 90% of the albums you hear are mastered by about 10 people. just don't use Bernie, he's a crazy fucking asshole. so what's the answer blue balls?

 

[Seanmorse79]

dude, just stop it. You're making everybody's head hurt with all the nonsense. I swear, I've seen you before under a different name. In a single post, you managed to:

- Contort someone else's statement, then say that you agreed with it.
- Re-hash one of your earlier statements that you mis-interpreted in the first place.
- Childishly insult people with moronic namecalling
- Quote an obviously random statistic
- Completely miss the whole point of the post.

That was the exact same M.O. of another guy a few months back. As I recall, he got kicked off the board.

So go ahead, take your shots at me and then get on with it. After that, just play nice and nobody gets hurt.