mastering house suggestions

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strev

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I have been reviewing posts that have convinced me I shouldn't attempt mastering my own stuff. Looking for positive experiences with any mastering houses for someone on a shoe-string budget (aren't we all)--maybe something along the lines of "Massive Mastering" prices. Unable to find anything previous posts using search options. Just vx/ac guit and approx 30 min music. Thanks alot.
 
strev said:
I have been reviewing posts that have convinced me I shouldn't attempt mastering my own stuff. Looking for positive experiences with any mastering houses for someone on a shoe-string budget (aren't we all)--maybe something along the lines of "Massive Mastering" prices. Unable to find anything previous posts using search options. Just vx/ac guit and approx 30 min music. Thanks alot.

www.massivemastering.com
 
Long story - I don't keep one up there. The usual suspects, Opto, VCA, Tube comressors, digtial and analog parametrics (modified stuff), DAW (Nuendo 2, UAD, etc.), Wharfedale mid-fields with modified crossovers, BX8's in the nearfield for reference and QC'ing, yada yada... 90% of what I do I hit with the in-house stuff. Once in a while, something comes in that's just begging for this or that, and I have a bit of a "network" with a few studios and gear nuts - We sort of have a "gear library" - Lending this, borrowing that. Certainly not a necessity, but handy none the less (like when you need a Fairchild or a Fostex 16-track w/DBX or something).

Oh, and a Mr. Coffee Elite (analog heat processing with digital readout). :D

John
 
Why would you need a Fostex 16 track w/DBX in a mastering studio?
 
Massive Master said:
Long story - I don't keep one up there. The usual suspects, Opto, VCA, Tube comressors, digtial and analog parametrics (modified stuff), DAW (Nuendo 2, UAD, etc.), Wharfedale mid-fields with modified crossovers, BX8's in the nearfield for reference and QC'ing, yada yada... 90% of what I do I hit with the in-house stuff. Once in a while, something comes in that's just begging for this or that, and I have a bit of a "network" with a few studios and gear nuts - We sort of have a "gear library" - Lending this, borrowing that. Certainly not a necessity, but handy none the less (like when you need a Fairchild or a Fostex 16-track w/DBX or something).

Oh, and a Mr. Coffee Elite (analog heat processing with digital readout). :D

John

can i get names please? cranesong, manley, GML, Avalon, pendulum?!?! what converters especially?
 
Since 1999, New York's Canaveral Skies Music has provided major-label
quality (and beyond) mastering for all types of independent musicians. Former
Sony Music mastering engineer Arthur Winer offers full-service mastering at
flat rates with no hidden costs. Starting at $400.
http://www.canaveralskies.com/mastering.htm

Arthur is also available for recording, mixing, and consulting.
For more information, contact Arthur at (718) 965-6562 or
e-mail mastering@canaveralskies.com.

Happy customers include: 11th Hour, Anchor Tattoo, Corey Andrew,
Beetroot, Bloater, Cockfighter, Chellie Coleman, Dark Marbles,
David Donnell, Electrolyte, Folksongs for the Afterlife, Growler,
Reed Hays, the Hi-Balls, Larry Kolker, Laddio Bolocko, Lane,
Luke Duke, Rebecca Luker, the Masons, the Matthew Show,
Kristen Meyer, Mr. Rick, Moody Bastard, Profecy, Chris Sizemore,
Snoozer, Michael Tritter, Burnley Vest, Von, Zoot and many others
 
Equipment and the mystics of mastering

Teacher: curious about your concern with Massivemaster's specific gear lineup... other than another mastering house trying to see where they lie, why would this be important? Most mastering houses will gladly give you a sample of your work mastered through their system. This has two benefits, first, the customer can hear the difference and decide if they really will get their moneys worth, and second, it allows the mastering engineer to hear what will have to be done on the project to better gauge the amount of time necessary for the project.

As for gear, there are a lot of different options for high end mastering gear... and you've named many of them, but what a mastering engineer uses to get his/her sound are his/her ears.

It's a shame if whether or not somebody had a prism converter, or a manley unit will influence somebody's opinion of the quality of work an engineer can put out.

I'm not flaming you, and respect your question, I'm more using it as a springboard to the broader conversation point. As a matter of fact, most potential customer's of services in this industry want to find out what's being used.

Anyhow, thanks for being my springboard.

Cheers.

Rich
Radium Reactor
 
jazzrich9 said:
Equipment and the mystics of mastering

Teacher: curious about your concern with Massivemaster's specific gear lineup... other than another mastering house trying to see where they lie, why would this be important? Most mastering houses will gladly give you a sample of your work mastered through their system. This has two benefits, first, the customer can hear the difference and decide if they really will get their moneys worth, and second, it allows the mastering engineer to hear what will have to be done on the project to better gauge the amount of time necessary for the project.

Radium Reactor

i ask because there are alot of scammers on the net who just have a bunch of 'mastering' plug-ins and say they are ME's which is not the case. Now if he has gear that is worth a down payment on a nice house that usually means he has experience and knows what he's doing, not to mention all that out board can actually improve the sound and thats what i feel my mixes need. some sorta 'professional' touch. you ain't getting that from plug ins YMMV
 
when you put it like that....i kinda wonder about sending my stuff to any mastering studio that i cant drive to and take a look around and then let them master a sample of my stuff.
 
isnt there some kind of Mastering Engineers Association of America that you can verify reputable mastering studios from?
 
Independent musicians should expect high
quality work from their mastering engineers,
but I think it's unrealistic to expect multimillion
dollar capitalized studios when you are
only paying a fraction of the amount major-labels
would pay for the same work.

When I worked as an engineer Sony,
they might bill $300-500 an hour
for my time. I had access to every type of equipment,
I worked in well-designed rooms, and I listened on extremely
expensive monitors. The price was justifiable, but
only because the record labels were able
and willing to pay it.

Now that I have my own business, I charge @$500
for an entire project. I have quality equipment
(B&W speakers, for example), but not near the
level of what I used at Sony. That said, I can offer the same
expertise & ears at a fraction of the cost.

Actually, I feel that the work I do in my own
studio surpasses what I was able to do
when I had access to the multimillion dollar
equipment. Perhaps because now, it's a labor of love.

Best,
Arthur Winer
Mastering Engineer
Canaveral Skies Music
http://www.canaveralskies.com/mastering.htm
 
Macartie - So eloquently put sir. We didn't get here on the same ship, but we're obviously in the same boat.

Teacher - I also don't have a "personal" inventory of gear like I used to have access to at JEM. My favorite "in house" compressor used to be an ART Pro VLA. Now, the guts and sound more resembles that of an LA2A. My preamp guts are stuffed into an old Behringer chassis. Same with my (AKM) converters (What can I say, they won the shootout). I even have one of those Behringer 2496 ultra-thingys. It was a "gift" from a band - I figured that other than the occasional live gig, it would collect dust. But once in a while, I actually use the beast. It's got some bad-ass sounding A/D converters if you don't try to smash it to death. Whooda' thunk it? On the other hand, if a client requests particular gear, I get it for them. However, my in-house rates no longer apply, and literally NONE of my repeat clients EVER request particular gear anymore. I've finally got them understanding that a base of "quality" (not "esoteric") gear combined with the right ear is what's important. But once in a great while, someone will want me to master on the "boutique" stuff. There's a place less than an hour from me that I'll go to do it (at $230 an hour including the room). The customer is always right.

That being said, probably about half my mastering projects I do completely "in the box" nowadays. I also get far better results now using state of the art software than when I was using the state of the art hardware. That could easily be attributed to "gear familiarity" as I'm self-employed AND full-time employed (by a municipality / governmental department) as an audio engineer, and work on a fairly consistent collection of gear. I'm also faily consistently backed-up. So, if someone doesn't want to use me for their project, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

But for the most part, no one's ever complained about the list or lack thereof. Scratch that - Manowar* wanted NS-10's for reference. They got 'em, too. Metal Militia* (2 Grammy entries on that one) was done 100% in the box. Hell, I mixed Jacco Muller's* "Silueta" CD in Vegas using Echo (probably AKM) converters, totally in the box, with Sonic Foundry's STOCK DX plugins, and mastered it in WaveLab. WaveLab, to me, is BARELY more than a PQ editing program. I think ANY program called a "mastering" program is... not properly named. Mastering, to me, is much more than a program or piece of gear that says "mastering" on it... Forgive me, I'm rambling.

Anyway, I haven't seen a review on that album that doesn't have the words "World Class" or "Recording Masterpiece" or "Reference Quality" or something similar in it somewhere. It's actually going to be released in North America some time later this year (on Centaur, I think). I'm pretty anxious to see some U.S. reviews on it. Obiviously, I can't take all the credit, it was recorded in 3 studios on two continents by very competent recording engineers and then comped in Vegas (hence why I had to mix it in Vegas). Silueta was a prime example of getting it right in the first place (the talent and the instruments).

So basically, it's true. I'm just not that "into" gear. If people want samples, I invite them to send a tune, a CD-R and a SASE and I'll send them an A/B to listen to. Or look at the client list. Or read any of the 50 or 60 published articles. ESPECIALLY the ones about people who go out and buy CD Architect and some plugins and then call themselves "Mastering Engineers" - I've got a bone to pick with them myself...

John

*No, I'm NOT trying to get into a "credits & clients" name-dropping thing here... That being said, I've been doing this for quite a while. I'm a long-time ASCAP member, a voting NARAS (Grammy Association) member with several U.S. & (mostly) international single, album & compilation credits. I'm not trying to rip anyone off. I'm trying to make them wonder why they'd go anywhere else, while trying to inspire them to do the best they can with whatever they have.
 
mixmkr said:

Sorry, dude - That was sort of a joke, but based in truth.

Long story short...

I was presented with a tape once - 1/2" 16 track Fostex 15-IPS, DBX.

The band recorded onto the first 10 or so tracks. The DAT at the studio failed or something and had no analog mixdown deck. So, not to waste a good mixing day, they sent the stereo buss to 13 & 14.

Hence, for mastering I needed a deck of the same model (I never realized how many different 16 track decks Fostex made... DBX, no DBX, HX, S, C, 15IPS, 30IPS - They really had a good selection!).

That was a strange one... Of course, the moral of the story is, Lend Unto Others as you would have them Lend Unto You. And of course, return the gear in at least as good, if not better condition than when you got it. Deoxidize knobs, jacks, take the grime off the knobs, clean the heads (if you're borrowing a deck).

John
 
Massive Master said:
>>>>>>clean the heads (if you're borrowing a deck).

John


or if you are just going to use it!!!


funny on the mixing to spare tracks of a multitrack.... I believe that to be Alan Parsons mixing method of choice on his "old" digital decks that he used to have (or he still may!). That way, mix "punch ins" were "easier" to do, since the tracks were all lined up and such, being on the same reel, time relation, etc.

PS...I'm just glad you didn't say the mix tape was on 1/2" with the left on channels 1-8 and the right on 9-16 (or visa versa)!!
 
Teacher said:
i ask because there are alot of scammers on the net who just have a bunch of 'mastering' plug-ins and say they are ME's which is not the case. Now if he has gear that is worth a down payment on a nice house that usually means he has experience and knows what he's doing, not to mention all that out board can actually improve the sound and thats what i feel my mixes need. some sorta 'professional' touch. you ain't getting that from plug ins YMMV

You know, I was thinking about my long rant last night and I thought I should bring up something...

I haven't met probably 90% of my clients over the past 5 years or so... I could very easily claim to have every boutique piece from the purest compressor to the most elaborate Pee-Wee-Hermanizer out there, but I don't (honesty factor). Yet, I'm obviously using techniques that most "home mastering engineers" wouldn't even be able to comprehend. My apprentice, who's a very competent recording, mixing and live engineer, didn't "get it" for quite some time when I was explaining what I'm doing. Of course, he could hear it (experience factor).

I guess the short point is, don't judge a book by its cover - I've heard some wonderful recordings by great engineers on cheap, borderline crappy equipment.

I've also heard horrible recordings done by novice engineers using the best possible gear available.

Ask for samples - Most engineers will offer them if you send a CD-R and a SASE. They can at least give you an idea of what it will sound like when it's finished. Don't expect a perfect master sample - 90% of the settings only take 10% of the time. The other 10% of the settings take the other 90% of the time. Many mastering guys (myself included) just don't have that kind of time to spend on an audition disc. God bless 'em if they do - I don't even have time to be typing this.

John
 
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