master bus comp Q

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andrushkiwt

andrushkiwt

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soooooo....

in a typical modern heavier rock mix, the kick and bass usually carry the most energy and are the loudest, except for maybe the loudest parts of the chorus vocal. In general, then, the low end is pretty reliant to the mix. So...on the 2 bus comp, if the previous is true, then it would be acting mostly on those instruments, causing the kick and bass to drop and evening out the lowest end of the mix. If you want the entire mix to be compressed, do you use the sidechain filter on the comp to sort of bypass that low end? It isn't really touching the guitars or vocals much in some of my mixes. But the kick and bass levels are good, it's just that the low end starts throbbing more instead of making the guitars punchy.

I think most ppl set the comp to a ratio and mess w the att and rel to get it right, but what about that sidechain on the comp? what about one comp w a sidechain and another without? do you do this?

Yes, I've tried it. At the moment, I'm resting my ears from this track since I'm about dead-tired of it and I want to wait a few days to reevaluate which mix I like better. The one w/ a sidechain bypassing the kick and bass, or the one without a sidechain that acts primarily on the low end of the mix.
 
If you put a compressor on the master, it is compressing the entire mix. If the kick and bass are so much louder than everything else that the compressor starts pumping, your mix is out of balance.

However, if you are trying to tighten the guitars up, why not compress the guitars? Or the vocals?

Trying to change the nature of the guitars by putting a compressor on the entire mix is not the best way to go about it.

Instead, send the guitars to a bus/group and put a compressor on that group. Do the same thing with the vocals, drums, etc... now you have control over the compression of the individual groups of instruments. You may not need to compress the master if you do this.
 
it's only compressing the things that pass through the threshold, the loudest stuff. usually, that's a kick and/or bass in heavy rock. i do compress the guitars on a bus. i compress the vocals on a bus. i'm not trying to change the nature of the guitars so much, just so that MORE of the entire mix is affected by the compressor without squashing everything. there's a sidechain feature on the compressor to ignore things below a certain freq (or above it, for that matter). in a track with a driving kick, is this a feature that may call for its use
 
Greg_L said:
Hey, you never told me that. That could be a big part of one of your problems. Why do you do this?
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It's so minor. It's to tame the big strums I make on the first hit of a chorus, for example, where I get all "aahhhrgg!!" and slam it a bit too hard. It's set low, like 2:1 and only takes off about 1-2db. The vast majority of the guitar playing is uncompressed. Even as it goes through the master bus comp.
 
Lol. Okay. I'm just sayin...you keep flattening everything down, you're left with flat mixes. Back to your regularly scheduled compression program.
 
andrushkiwt said:
it's only compressing the things that pass through the threshold, the loudest stuff.
Click to expand...

Gain reduction is applied to the whole mix whenever anything goes over the threshold, not just to the parts that go over the threshold. If the kick is triggering the compressor you'll hear everything else drop while the kick is getting compressed.
 
andrushkiwt said:
it's only compressing the things that pass through the threshold, the loudest stuff.
Click to expand...
Well, no. It is compressing the whole fucking mix. Or I guess more correctly, when the whole mix goes over the threshold, it's turning the whole mix down to compensate. It might be the kick and bass that are the biggest reason it's going over, but it's gonna turn down the guitars along with the kick and bass.

To answer your question: I personally don't often use the sidechain. What I usually do instead is just stick an EQ on either side of the compressor - what I call "pre-emphasis/de-emphasis". Very very often on the Master I will shelf the low end down a bit going into the compressor and then bump it back up on the other side. Lets me get that good gluey smooth happening without losing so much of the thumping impact of the low end transients. You can get similar results from an EQ in the sidechain, but this way just works better for me most of the time.
 
andrushkiwt said:
it's only compressing the things that pass through the threshold, the loudest stuff. usually, that's a kick and/or bass in heavy rock.
Click to expand...

Unless I don't completely understand what you're saying, this isn't true. The bass and kick might trigger the compressor to kick in when it peaks over the threshold, but after that, all audio is compressed. The compressor is not able to discriminate between the different instruments or freq ranges.

[Edit: Yeah, Ash and I posted at the same time. His is the better answer. :)]
 
bouldersoundguy said:
Gain reduction is applied to the whole mix whenever anything goes over the threshold, not just to the parts that go over the threshold. If the kick is triggering the compressor you'll hear everything else drop while the kick is getting compressed.
Click to expand...

True. Faulty thinking...thanks Pat.
 
ashcat_lt said:
What I usually do instead is just stick an EQ on either side of the compressor - what I call "pre-emphasis/de-emphasis". Very very often on the Master I will shelf the low end down a bit going into the compressor and then bump it back up on the other side. Lets me get that good gluey smooth happening without losing so much of the thumping impact of the low end transients. You can get similar results from an EQ in the sidechain, but this way just works better for me most of the time.
Click to expand...

Well, I EQ before it, but mostly to get rid of some low mid mud or something harsh in the 1-2.5khz area. That EQ goes first in my chain and has a HP shelf around 30hz.
 
Chili said:
lol, you make one little mistake and everyone pounces.... :D
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Brain fart for 2 seconds. No biggie, they were just trying to help. It's all good. "the whole fucking mix" was my favorite part, thanks Ashcat. I lol'd.

Guess what I'm getting it is that I'm hearing it more on the kick than elsewhere. It's really not too loud, it's a decent volume for a modern kick.
 
The answer to your original question is YES, you can use the sidechain to de-emphasize the low end. That will let you have the compressor be triggered by the snare or whatever else is the loudest thing after the kick and bass.

However, I still think that if the kick is really making the mix bus compressor pump that bad, the mix isn't balanced very well.
 
I'm to the point not caring much for comps that don't have side chain eq for a lot of duties- exactally for this reason.
You want x amount of tuck', a little more or less in one range or another..

Here's a good one.
PSP MasterComp plug-in (VST, AudioUnit, RTAS) Stereo Mastering Compressor
Very versatile -clean' for the most part. Wont do really fast release. The biggest down side is attacks your transients even when you set it not too. Not sure what's up with that, they do not mention it anywhere.
However I found that 'feature' :rolleyes: turned into a go to for a drum bus 'snare tamer patch.
Doesn't have to even touch the kick for example.
 
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andrushkiwt said:
It's so minor. It's to tame the big strums I make on the first hit of a chorus, for example, where I get all "aahhhrgg!!" and slam it a bit too hard. It's set low, like 2:1 and only takes off about 1-2db. The vast majority of the guitar playing is uncompressed. Even as it goes through the master bus comp.
Click to expand...

Why would you throw a compressor on it rather than just automating the volume a little?
 
mjbphotos said:
Why would you throw a compressor on it rather than just automating the volume a little?
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BECAUSE I'M LAZY!!!

i don't know. The waveform doesn't usually appear to be much bigger in those spots, so I don't always catch them. It's more of a safeguard against loud spikes than something for color or that's constantly acting on it. Really, it's only triggered a few times a track.
 
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