lyrics nothing without hook/demons give songs?

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weatherbill

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I believe I could have the greatest lyrics in the word, but no one would listen to them if I didn't have great music to them.

This was the dilema with pink floyd. Waters had great lyrics, but along came Gilmore and told him that it's nothing if you don't have the great music behind it because no one's gonna get it without the hook. I've heard many many incredible song writers. I live here in nashville, but the music behind it had no hook. What a shame that such great lyrics will never be heard.
I have 40 songs with very strong hook. I don;t even bother starting up a song unless I'm divinely inspired by its hook somehow.
Another theory of mine if you will, is that of spiritual origine. The stones wrote a ton of their hits in a very short period, then the hits stopped coming. I believe the demons were making songs thru them. God has given me songs, even in dreams and they come dozens at a time. I could try real hard to come up with something classic, but it never works. Only when "it" comes upon me, then I get a ton of stuff, like a fload from heaven invading and without much effort, all the parts come and are classic, like I'm not trying to hard here. Any opinions welcomed
 
R. Waters has done just fine without Pink Floyd and his demons are still swarming.

I say, take it when it comes and when it doesn't, go get it.

Theron.
 
So demons are into songwriting now??
I guess that's better than abusive demonic posession.

As far as I go...I write my own songs. Not any demon or god.

Actually, about 95% of all really talented bands are non-Christian, while the ones that are christian lack much...talent, imo.
POD, Jars of Clay, and DC Talk are the only ones to see the light of the rest of the world.

But if God writes your music for you I guess you do have it rather easy. Whatever works for you...
 
How does one determine who writes the songs through you?....Demons or God? Just wondering. Ozzy may be a little easier...
Lyrics without music......Tracie Chapman did a song on her first record that had no music at all...just her singing "last night I hear the sirens...." or something and its IMO the best song on the record. Maybe it goes into poetry instead of music...but that just sounds a little harsh to place all a songs worth, so to speak, on a hook. Maybe we're talking about measure of success, in which case......Whose writting N'Syncs and Brittany's songs? Because they got the hooks and the success......
Song writting is a personal process to us all....but I cant help but think that all of us who do, or try in my case..., are just a little self serving, arent we? I mean, I would like nothing more than to get a song I have written out to the world and have someone connect and say "yeah...me too" or something. But that basically feeds an ego in me...and I just wonder how much ego play God or any other force gives us. But, in much respect to you, my friend, I have only maybe 10 songs compared to your 40 and my writting comes slow and at times labored....so if your being influenced by the heavens, then I salute you and wish you peace and happiness.....put a good word in for me....

Peace,
Michael
 
Lyric?hook

I absolutely agree that the hook is one of the most important parts of a song but so is the opening verse as this is what a publisher or record company listens to first. If it doesnt grab them in the first 30secs then its finito Im afraid. Ive been songwriting for quite a long time and Ive been there when this has happened many times to my own songs so my advice is make sure that Ist verse is good. A great lyric can enhance a song and if its a ballad even more so. Sammy Cahn (who was a great lyricist and wrote the lyrics for many of Sinatra,s songs) once said "3 coins in a fountain",wasnt the original lyric and he really had to work on it to get it right which we know he did. Songwriting can be uplifting but can also be downright depressing but never boring(to me anyway) FK
 
I have a pet demon who writes my songs for me. He lives in the bottom of a bottle of Mezcal and his name is Cedric. He used to work for Mick and Keith, but left them over a song credit issue.

Buffalo Beelzebub
 
Devine songwriteing.Hmmmmmm...If it works for you then good!Some folks have spiritual motivation...To me its about the work and doing the best job I can..After that, let the chips fall where they may


Don
 
"little demons by my bed
whisper secrets, the kind you've never had"

My demon's name is wormwood.

I can see likening songwritting to divine intervention.

Without a lyrical or musical "hook" a song won't be commercially successful. Still can be a good song.

Hooks come from many things, a combination of lyric and music, sometimes just one or the other. Sometimes just the energy of the song -Cobain comes to mind. Rock music isn't poetry, it isn't pure composition, it's a bastard offspring of both. Sometimes words can be amazingly poetic, sometimes amazingly Banal but still somehow possess power. It's how it all works together.

I typically start with the hook and go from there. Personally I don't bother myself with my own songs without hook. I play at small clubs where no one's heard me before, except for bandmembers girlfriends, so they need to get hooked PRONTO.

Then afterwards I go drinking with wormwood.
 
Very, very, rarely....

does a song just plop onto your lap, from the Lord or the Devil. Most often it is mainly just plain old hard work. THe more songs you write, the better you will get. You will begin to see what things work, and what things don't.

People go through creative peaks and valleys. People who become wildly famous also eventually stray from the current of what's hot and popular, simply because it's so hard to have the right song at the right time, all the time.

The Beatles were very fortunate that way.

Aaron
http://www.aaroncheney.com
 
i heard mccartney woke up one morning humming "yesterday". He "got it" in his sleep. He claimed he received it through a lucid dream... interesting.
 
I'm sure god is taking the time out of his busy schedule to write pop songs for you? Yah that makes tons of sense....It's like basketball players that thank god for them winning a game, like god cares about a basketball game or a pop song for that matter.....WHEN PEOPLE ARE STARVVVVVIIIIING!!!!!

and if god writes anyones music you can bet he ain't in the pop genre....cause god knows that pop music kills plants...now, why would he want to do something like that....He's definately a classical composer....


-nave
 
Just had a depressing thought.......that explains why people are starving Naive....
The devil picked the Stones......
God picked ......Stryper

Bob...its Friday....wheres Cedric when I NEED HIM.......
 
Good thread! I don't know where songs come from...whether
"god" writes them and we are there to catch them or what.
Actually, that sort of stuff always bores me when I read
big stars saying it. I just know writing for me is a bitch----write and rewrite and rewrite and welll....you know. So I suspect
I may be getting some of my ideas from the devil, if that's
an indication.

But to me, if an idea does not start with a STRONG ORIGINAL concept, then it ain't worth writing. By concept, I mean, a new way of saying it that hasn't been said quite that way before.
For example, there have been many songs with the title
"I Love You". And I think if somebody had a good melody
and a way of saying it that hadn't been said before, that
might be strong and original, depending. As a very bad
example, let's say a guy wrote a song with that title and
the reasons was because of the different color panties
she wore....the purple ones, the blue ones, the pink one's.
Now, I've never heard love tackled this way(well, Barry
White did have a song I think called "Black Panties" which
sounded pretty steamy) which might make it an original
concept. But I'm not sure it would be a strong one.

As far as the critism of many of the songs in Nashville that
are strong on lyrics but short on melody, I agree this is often
a true rap about country music and I am mostly a country
writer. And I often think that I write too pop for country
and too country for pop but that's another thread, I guess.

PaulB
 
Paul - I dunno, I think lyrics and concept are very overrated. But, it goes back to genre. Rock has always been able to thrive on ambiguos references to god knows what...or cheesey lines here and there. Where as country music fans have traditionally wanted story line etc...verses building upon each other. Like that semi-new country song "riding with private andrew malone" or whatever. To me...it sucks..becuase it's too direct. He says what he is saying...and I think it is lame. Versus lyrics on the new Strokes album "i lost sense in fame/says we're all the same/I don't see it that way/raised in carolina...i'm not like that.."

BRILLIANT!

Hehe, what wins the strokes song is the melody..and the delivery. And it's nothing short of beautiful. Who needs strong concept. Maybe 1 in 12 songs. Much greater gift to be able to write about nothing and make it work in my opinion - I know I can't do it. My lyrics are always too damn direct. Sometimes I think if I got a program to go through my lyrics, and remove every third word...I'd be getting somewhere.
 
Some thoughts
Always keep a hook book with you so when you see a good hook you can write it down and not forget.
Dont forget about the song=Most writers are so concerned
about getting thier songs heard and recorded that they forget about the most important thing the song. I have found amateur writers who believe whatever flows off their lips or out of their pens is perfect. If you are one of these people and ever expect your songs to be taken seriously you must hone your craft.
songwriting is hard and requires alot of work. These are somethings that I learned that helped me sign my first songwritng contract here in Nashville.
 
Here in new jersey, it's as if the nashville scene (fortunatly) does not exist....and then I go on the internet and I'm reminded that there is this place called nashville, where people think that demons and god right songs and everyone is so concerned about writing these "catchy hooks" and becoming famous......Seems so superficial to me, especially when you start throwing the word god around in the same sentence as "catchy hooks" and pop song....MEH...Aye nashville........

Ofcourse that's just my opinion MEH

-nave
 
songwriting

Hey Nave, There are people who have been inspired by God and written some great songs but I agree it isnt exclusive. I dont quite understand what you mean when you criticise writers who want success are you saying you write songs for YOUR pleasure only? Im not knocking you if thats how you feel but dont knock other writers who have gained recognition for their obvious talents.

FK
 
I have a couple of inner deamons, but they refuse to write the songs for me.
With is too bad ´cus the result would probably be better.

Now how do I get them to cooparate?
 
Wes,

I WHOLEHEARTEDLY DISGREE with you on Private Malone.
I think that is a truly fine piece of writing with nice imagery.
But to each his own. The Strokes(or is that Stokes) line
did nothing for me and I haven't heard them but just
heard about them. And yet, I might like the song if
I heard it.

I think when people talk about music, about whether lyrics
are or aren't important, then if the TYPE of music isn't mentioned,
then I think it's loose and sloppy writing. And that might be
okay in some places but in a songwriting group, I think some
precision is called for. For example, if you are talking about
country or folk, for example, lyrics are VERY important. Or
about a Broadway play. Now, on the other hand, dance music
seems at or near the bottom of content as far as lyrics.

Yes, there are some lines that the writer doesn't MEAN for the listener to get...or MEANS to be interpreted how they want. But many writers think that justifies them writing crappy, say nothing lines full of fog.

PaulB
 
"I have a couple of inner deamons, but they refuse to write the songs for me.
With is too bad ´cus the result would probably be better.

Now how do I get them to cooparate?"

Cedric says that you should surrender yourself to your demons, give them plenty of single-malt Scotch and nubile young women, and they will work for you.
Actually, you might try to obtain Jagger's current demon, as he isn't doing much these days!
 
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