Looking for better tape machine for mixdown

[robble]

I’m currently using a song t-we475 dual well for my mixdown deck from my 488mkii. I’m looking to find something that might be a little better, to make master tapes for tape duplication and such. I’m looking at something like this
AKAI GX 230D Reel To Reel tape machine - electronics - by owner - sale
I realize there are considerable limitations on sound quality coming from the 488 itself, so would a reel to reel like this, using just 1/4in tape, give an improvement on sound that’s worth the price of the machine and tape?

 

[RFR]

Are you only analog? If not why not mix to a daw? It will reproduce exactly what you captured on tape with no added 'color'
You can then bring that mix back into your four track and add more tracks.

 

[robble]

I am looking to keep it analogue. Also, the 488 only has stereo outputs which makes it hard to do much mixing on a computer

 

[RFR]

I am looking to keep it analogue. Also, the 488 only has stereo outputs which makes it hard to do much mixing on a computer

Gotcha. Well I like analog too. Im not familiar with that R to R, but it will impart some of its own character into your mixes.

For me, back in my 4 track days, I'd still mix to a digital format. Dat tape. No color, nothing added or taken away from your mix.

Then I'd bring it back to the 4track and add two more tracks and sometimes repeat.

 

[robble]

Thanks. I guess my question is: will a home stereo type reel to reel give me better results than a decent home cassette deck?

 

[RFR]

Thanks. I guess my question is: will a home stereo type reel to reel give me better results than a decent home cassette deck?

Provided its in good shape, usually. Just because of the wider track width.

Now if i were to compare that reel to reel with a Nakamichi dragon, I'd probably go for the cassette . But chances are you won't find an excellent condition dragon for 150 bucks.

 

[cyrano]

It's a bit pricey for a deck like that. I was offered an AKAI GX 230D for 35 € a few weeks ago on a flea market. Condition unknown, but had very good looking heads. I didn't buy it, because I would have to carry it a long way to the car and it's a heavy bugger...

Besides, I'm looking for a 2 track. Not a 4-track like the AKAI GX 230D.

AKAI decks have very good (glass ferrite) heads you won't find on many other brands. I know of 1 higher end Philips deck that also has those. They last longer than any other tape head. That doesn't mean they are always good.

Besides, if you can find a Revox 77 for a decent price, you can still buy replacement Bogen heads for those, even if they are pricey. And most spare parts.

 

[witzendoz]

I have an Akai somewhere in my pile of Reel to Reels can't remember the model but I do remember it sounded very good and it was not a top line model at that. I also had an Akai cassette deck that lived in my touring PA system for desk tapes (we are talking early 1990's), Akai made some great gear.

I also remember that Aki had glass ferrite heads that seems to last a very long time. Oh I just noticed that someone had said that


Alan

 

[ecc83]

Akai did make some nice machines. Although they were quite common I saw very few in for repair.

However, if you are looking for a machine to copy over to I would stick out for something running NABs and 15ips. The A77* has been mentioned, the B77 was even better if you can find one at a decent price.

I would still consider the digital route. My son made tracks on an A3440 but "mixed" them down to a JVC hi fi sound video recorder a fantastically low noise, low distortion machine in its time. We then got a 2496 card and a small mixer and he "dumped" to that for a time but quickly realised that doing it all on the computer was SO much easier!

*The A77s did not have "pro" inputs and outputs and their overall noise performance was worse than it should have been. Fortunately they are easily modified.

https://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-Studio-Sound/70s/Studio-Sound-1972-04.pdf
Page 37.
Dave.

 

[jpmorris]

If you're going the tape route, I'd definitely suggest a 15 IPS half-track stereo machine. The A77 and B77-HS are examples of this, but note that both are available in various speeds - the B77HS is the 15 IPS version. Also consider the PR99 which is the pro version, I think those are always 15 IPS. The TASCAM 32 is another option at the low end, after that things start getting expensive.

 

[ecc83]

A point to bear in mind when copying tape to tape is the level.

If you copy at say 3dB lower than original you will worsen noise. Copy at original level and distortion is higher. Now I know peeps LIKE tape partly for the "harmonics" but go too far and things start to sound nasty.

Noise reduction can help of course but I know there are "purists" that spurn DBX and Dolby. The latter of course requires very close alignment of levels and frequency response.

Dave.

 

[jamesperrett]

I'd echo the advice to go for a Revox if you can possibly afford it - once you've used one just about every other home audio reel to reel will seem like a toy. With Akai machines you need to watch out for crumbling cams which can make some models not worth repairing.

 

[robble]

Thanks for all the info! What’s a fair price for a revox anyway? I’m not sure it’s justifiable to have a mixdown machine with higher fidelity than the 488?

 

[RFR]

I’m not sure it’s justifiable to have a mixdown machine with higher fidelity than the 488?

Sure. Why not? The 488 gives you the sound quality you want. The better the quality of the two track, the more accurate representation of what you recorded.
Keep in mind the two track is your master. Every duplication of your mix comes from that.

 

[cyrano]

A point to bear in mind when copying tape to tape is the level.

If you copy at say 3dB lower than original you will worsen noise. Copy at original level and distortion is higher. Now I know peeps LIKE tape partly for the "harmonics" but go too far and things start to sound nasty.

Noise reduction can help of course but I know there are "purists" that spurn DBX and Dolby. The latter of course requires very close alignment of levels and frequency response.

Dave.

And Dolby NR is no longer available for licensing, so no new recorders with Dolby. You'll need to keep digital archive copies.

 

[ecc83]

Sure. Why not? The 488 gives you the sound quality you want. The better the quality of the two track, the more accurate representation of what you recorded.
Keep in mind the two track is your master. Every duplication of your mix comes from that.

Agreed. It is a basic principle that you keep the quality of "storage" higher than the source material. This is one reason "we" record at 24 bits even though the destination will be 16 bits or (Bleugh!) tiny bit MP3!
It is also one of the very few justifications for working at 96kHz although I never have.

Dave.

 

[jpmorris]

I don't know what currency you're using but I'm seeing Revox PR99s on ebay for about £500-700. I also saw one for far less, but it was untested. B77s are running about the same, but check the speed first as a lot of them will be low-speed decks.

 

[jamesperrett]

I don't know what currency you're using but I'm seeing Revox PR99s on ebay for about £500-700. I also saw one for far less, but it was untested. B77s are running about the same, but check the speed first as a lot of them will be low-speed decks.

A77's are going for less and are still good decks. Even a quarter track A77 running at 7.5ips will be superior to an awful lot of alternatives. The B77 has better head access if you want to edit tapes. The main thing to watch out for is head wear - if the heads are good then just about everything else can be fixed.

 

[jamesperrett]

And Dolby NR is no longer available for licensing, so no new recorders with Dolby. You'll need to keep digital archive copies.

Noise reduction isn't necessarily needed with a decent reel to reel recorder. Probably only 10% of the masters I transfer use Dolby A and I don't think I've had any dBX masters. Software Dolby decoders are starting to appear so I assume that some of the Dolby patents have run out.

 

[cyrano]

It's just a point if your current Dolby equipped recorder dies. You'll need to buy a used one, as new decks cannot be equipped with it anymore.

Dolby playback decoding in software has been around for a long time. A radio destined app/VST called "Stereo tool", fi. It just wasn't called Dolby for obvious reasons. Would be good if patents have run out, from an archiving pov.

Tascam introduced a NEW cassette deck recently, with DNR. I've been told these chips do Dolby decoding too, I just don't know how precise it is.