Led Zeppelin now in court over Stairway

witzendoz said:
I would testify that I much prefer Ian Anderson's attitude:
Click to expand...

Yeah...that's what I'm talking about.
There's a lot of subconscious shit that floats around. I've heard it in a lot of songs, and I doubt anyone thought, "Ooh, I'm going to steal that chord progression".

TBH...one of the reasons I tend NOT to listen to a lot of other peoples music these days, is because when I'm in a song writing groove, I simply don't want anyone's stuff subconsciously floating into my head.
Sometime I'll even stop and think hard about what I am writing/playing to see if it's sounding like any song I might have heard...but that said, I've certainly been influenced by songs I heard, and then it is a conscious thing, where I know what that song sounds like, and I will try and mimic the feeling, the non-specific essence of that song, and avoid anything that is going to directly suggest that song from within mine.

I dunno...I'm not saying Page wasn't possibly, subconsciously or consciously influenced but the chord sequence...but man, I can't help but notice how different STH is, as a whole, when you get past those three chords...and it is that which IMO, makes it hard to say that STH is "stolen" or that it infringes on the copyright of "Taurus". Overall...two different songs, IMO.

At any rate...the jury will certainly have it's say, and I only hope they understand what it is they are listening for...because again, they should consider the complete compositions, not just three chords.

Yeah..Ian Anderson has the right perspective...totally. :thumbs up:
 
Of course they're different songs. There's no dispute there. But a key passage of Stairway sounds exactly the same as a key passage of that Taurus thing. That's obviously what's in question. Stairway is a long song with lots of shit. But that one section is a direct rip of that one section of that Taurus song.
 
So then...how do they cut up STH...I mean, I don't think the guy from "Taurus" deserves a full writing credit for STH, since it is such a completely different song when taken as a whole.
I still say this is just about the money...and not about getting any songwriting credits...and I still think the author of "Taurus" probably had the same kind of perspective as Ian Anderson about the "Hotel California" thing....which is why for 30 years, he never bothered with any lawsuit against LZ. I think he too felt that it's just a 3 chord progression and that doesn't make for a song...and so he let it go.

Now it's some estate executor" and the sister...looking for a payday.
Let's see if they get it.
 
miroslav said:
So then...how do they cut up STH...I mean, I don't think the guy from "Taurus" deserves a full writing credit for STH, since it is such a completely different song when taken as a whole.
I still say this is just about the money...and not about getting any songwriting credits...and I still think the author of "Taurus" probably had the same kind of perspective as Ian Anderson about the "Hotel California" thing....which is why for 30 years, he never bothered with any lawsuit against LZ. I think he too felt that it's just a 3 chord progression and that doesn't make for a song...and so he let it go.

Now it's some estate executor" and the sister...looking for a payday.
Let's see if they get it.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree that the motives for suing at this point are questionable. I'm with you there. I really don't even care who wins or loses. I'm not anti Led Zeppelin. I just want it to be acknowledged that Jimmy Page stole that piece of Taurus because he liked it and thought he could get away with it. I really believe that's what he did. Maybe he needed one more interlude to finish the rest of Stairway. I don't know. I just think he heard it, liked that little section, and said "no one knows these guys and I'm Jimmy fucking Page, so I'm taking it". Jimmy Page is a legend and he's very egocentric like most legends are, so I think he thought he was above it all and could do whatever he wanted. He still thinks that. I think it was intentional. It's not a musical coincidence that the Taurus piece and the Stairway section are damn near note-for-note.
 
Greg_L said:
Jimmy Page is a legend and he's very egocentric like most legends are, so I think he thought he was above it all and could do whatever he wanted. He still thinks that. I think it was intentional. It's not a musical coincidence that the Taurus piece and the Stairway section are damn near note-for-note.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with that...I'm sure the whole LZ thing took over these guys minds...but hey, they were a monster band at the time, and their legend only got bigger after Bonzo's death and subsequent band ending.
There's guys still micro-analyzing every note, every song, every tone, every bit of gear...it's actually comical at times.
I love Page's rough, as it falls playing and his tones have all been great....but yeah, I do see that he is now living the LZ hype, and frankly, I think we all would be doing it too if we had that kind of history behind us.

Did he just "hear it" and then it stuck in his head...did he "steal it" knowing it was going to turn into a monster song...did he think that it's not a big deal because it's just three chords...?
I don't think any of that will ever come out....and people can sit on either side of the fence...and I don't really care so much about LZ being sued....it's more about the bigger picture for me. Where does the line get drawn about what can be claimed as 100% original and therefore, copyright protected...and what is more in line with generic stuff...chords, phrases, song styles...that have been used before and handed down over the years.
Even if Page only heard those three chords for the first time from "Taurus" and from that perspective...one can say he took it from that song...I firmly believe that progression, played in that style is by no means a first-time original composition/performance...and that's why I can't see just that chord sequence deserving a copyright.

I am curious what defense LZ will present.
If they can show that the chord sequence is not something original only stemming from "Taurus"...that's it, they win.
If the whole thing only comes down to saying that Page didn't get any of the STH ideas come from "Taurus"...the jury may not buy it.

I think at this point, the "Taurus" lawyers didn't even officially establish who wrote/copyrighted "Taurus"...which they would have to do in order to claim copyright infraction. Apparently...they just provided some unofficial proof.

All that said...I can see appeals coming, no matter what happens with this trail. It's not going to be over clean. :D
 
I think LZ will win because they're LZ. They can afford the best trial lawyers. They have status on their side....and lots of money.

I said it already, to me, it's how those chords are picked. Same with House of the Rising Sun. Same with Sweet Home Alabama. Those Taurus and Stairway chords are just chords, but how they're picked and played make them nearly indistinguishable. Strum them open at a campfire and it's just chords. Pick them that certain way, and it's Taurus/Stairway. I think the Taurus people will have to prove more than just the obvious similarity, they might have to prove intent. I'm not a lawyer obviously. I'm just guessing. I think I read somewhere that Jimmy Page was very aware of these guys and knew the Taurus song. If that's true, it makes it look to me that he intentionally took that little section.
 
House of the Rising Sun is an interesting one. The Animals didn't even write it.. but they were first to perform it with 6/8 timing and arpeggios. It does seem strange how they can claim copyright on a song they didn't even write where they're just copyrighting their performance of it.

On the LZ thing - I don't think it matters if Page lifted that little passage from a Taurus song - its normal to pick little bits up and incorporate them into your playing.
 
JDOD said:
House of the Rising Sun is an interesting one. The Animals didn't even write it.. but they were first to perform it with 6/8 timing and arpeggios. It does seem strange how they can claim copyright on a song they didn't even write where they're just copyrighting their performance of it.

On the LZ thing - I don't think it matters if Page lifted that little passage from a Taurus song - its normal to pick little bits up and incorporate them into your playing.
Click to expand...

Except most of the time people try to make it their own thing. He just reused it note for note.
 
Greg_L said:
Except most of the time people try to make it their own thing. He just reused it note for note.
Click to expand...

I should probably listen to this Taurus thing now.

EDIT: LOL, its fucking shit! It does have a similarity to STH but if I was the bloke from Taurus I wouldn't be calling my lawyer over it... and funnily enough, he didn't.
 
JDOD said:
I should probably listen to this Taurus thing now.

EDIT: LOL, its fucking shit! It does have a similarity to STH but if I was the bloke from Taurus I wouldn't be calling my lawyer over it... and funnily enough, he didn't.
Click to expand...

Yup...that's how I'm hearing it too. :)
 
This Natures Way song isn't half as bad a Taurus, but it also sounds very, very generic and sounds like lots of stuff and lots of stuff sounds like it....

Now, either Spirit are some sort of undiscovered genius of rock music and thought of everything first... or, they're writing pretty generic songs, using pretty generic chords that's bound to sound like loads of other shit.
 
JDOD said:
This Natures Way song isn't half as bad a Taurus, but it also sounds very, very generic and sounds like lots of stuff and lots of stuff sounds like it....

Now, either Spirit are some sort of undiscovered genius of rock music and thought of everything first... or, they're writing pretty generic songs, using pretty generic chords that's bound to sound like loads of other shit.
Click to expand...

There is a third option that they were a decent band that did some great stuff and some not-so-great stuff.
 
JDOD said:
Now, either Spirit are some sort of undiscovered genius of rock music and thought of everything first... or, they're writing pretty generic songs, using pretty generic chords that's bound to sound like loads of other shit.
Click to expand...

Except Taurus doesn't sound like Stairway. A part of Stairway sounds exactly like a part of Taurus. Jimmy Page stole a specific lick from a generic chord progression in a generic song by a generic band.
 
I suppose, while I see that they sound similar, I don't think they sound anything other than fairly generic use of a few chords without all of the other ornamentation.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top