Layering rock guitars 101

[miroslav]

If I take a powered amp, dial it down to 1 watt, properly align SM-57 mic with my butt-hole, drink a case of and eat a sausage and pepper pizza, let a loud, wet,smelly fart, will it give me that "brown sound" that EVH made famous? Could I later layer it?

Sure, you could layer it....just don't change your underwear.

 

[XploZiveToyz]

Sure, you could layer it....just don't change your underwear.

LOL! Good one!

 

[JimmyS1969]

I am thinking many missed the response from the OP about his signal chain after guitar...

"From there I'm going into a Zoom G1XN multi-FX pedal, then straight into a Yamaha MR1642 preamp mixer, then using an XLR-to-USB cable into my fairly new Macbook Pro".

There is a quality step missing here that should be addressed further...

Any amp sim is not going to fare well with crap interface.

 

[XploZiveToyz]

What kind of interface does the OP have? Does the mixer have one? Is it a crap one?

 

[JimmyS1969]

What kind of interface does the OP have? Does the mixer have one? Is it a crap one?

No it doesn't. XLR to USB cable man. Jeez.. Come on guyz. I know it Friday and time for beers, but help out here.

 

[JimmyS1969]

@ Hazzard:

What are you using as XLR to USB adapter?

 

[XploZiveToyz]

No it doesn't. XLR to USB cable man. Jeez.. Come on guyz. I know it Friday and time for beers, but help out here.

LOL! Didn't catch that part. That would definitely need to be addressed.

 

[Hazard Nova]

It's literally a cable with a female XLR at one end and a male USB at the other. (Belkin makes it, I think.) Mid-way down the cable is a box with a dial and a blue light on it, but I don't touch that part, ever.

I used to use that cable, back in my filmmaking days, to record voiceover. I'd go from the mic straight into the computer. It never failed me.

So now I plan to use it to go from the mixer to the computer. I also have all the adapters I need to make the end of that cable a male 1/4" if I want to, so I could go out from the FX-pedal or even straight from the guitar.

 

[Hazard Nova]

So, my mixer is a Yamaha MR1642. It's old, but still seems to work fine. From what I've read it's a professional (but low-end professional) mixer. Still, I don't see why that makes it a "crap" interface.

I Googled the mixer and in some forum (maybe on this site? I can't remember) someone said if you can find one of these for under $400 it's a steal. (I got mine for free! ) So, if a $100 multi-FX pedal, a $400+ mixer, and a perfectly good XLR-to-USB cable = a crap interface, what exactly do the hobbyists of homerecording.com consider a good interface?

 

[Farview]

The xlr to USB cable is the 'interface'. The rest is your audio path. Usually people use a proper recording audio interface.

 

[fullbirdmusic]

That's just it though. Dive in first. No holds barred. Lay down a track, then grab a different pickup and lay down another. Tweak the EQ for the different tracks .
The only thing I could offer is to back off your gain from what you normally use. A notch or two would probably do it.
Like I have my gain at around 7 1/2 when playing live. I back it off to 6 when recording. Max gain doesn't really record very well.

Damn the torpedoes!

This is very true and excellent advice. Huge sounding guitars on a recording don't necessarily equate to huge amounts of gain. Experiment with reverb and panning. Many top guitar players use small amps in the studio, not their usual wall of speaker cabs you might see them onstage with.
I usually double guitars, one panned about 30% L and one panned 30% right. The key to using a technique like doubling though, is that the performance has to be nearly perfect. Or at least the second track has to perfectly match the first in accents, strumming patterns, and intensity. Remember - in recording, a huge part of getting great-sounding tracks is great performances. Most of the time technical skill in (home) recording will only give you as much as you need to get the track recorded without breaking any digital rules or peaking the meters. Other than that, basic common sense and a great performance will help the most in the beginning. But again, great performances will always help, no matter what your skill level.
Read as much as you can possibly get your hands on about recording and practice, practice, practice. Good luck!

 

[fullbirdmusic]

Also just noticed the replies about interface - a decent interface makes a world of difference. There are plenty available for those on a budget.
Usually cable dongles aren't going to cut it if you want anything to sound great. Good luck.

 

[Hazard Nova]

This is the part I don't understand about categorization/semantics:

If my mixer had that same exact cable hard-wired coming out of the back, then the mixer would be my interface. Once I plug that cable into my mixer, and the connection is snug, what is the effective difference?

Conversely, why isn't the XLR end of the cable and the wire running throughout it just part of the signal chain, with the USB contacts themselves being the interface?

I'm getting philosophical here, but it's because I really don't see why signal chain and interface are mutually exclusive.

 

[miroslav]

These days....an "interface" in audio recording lingo, specifically refers to that device that is responsible for converting your analog signal to a digital one.

A mixer is not an "interface", unless it's a digital mixer and the conversion happens inside it.

An XLR to USB cable, while obviously having a form of "conversion" built into it (that " box with a dial and a blue light on it")...it's not going to be anything as good as a more formal A/D converter box.
Also, it may only be a 16bit converter...and most standalone A/D boxes these days are running at 24.

I mean....it will most likely do conversion for you....but it's not going to be comparable to more typical converter boxes.
How well it works for your needs, only you can decide.

 

[JimmyS1969]

This is the part I don't understand about categorization/semantics:

If my mixer had that same exact cable hard-wired coming out of the back, then the mixer would be my interface. Once I plug that cable into my mixer, and the connection is snug, what is the effective difference?

Conversely, why isn't the XLR end of the cable and the wire running throughout it just part of the signal chain, with the USB contacts themselves being the interface?

I'm getting philosophical here, but it's because I really don't see why signal chain and interface are mutually exclusive.

It seems you do not understand what is meant by 'Interface'. USB does not transfer audio. It takes the digital signal AFTER an analog to digital A/D converter had already done so. It also returns digital signal back to an interface which converts it back to analog (D/A). The 'interface' you are using, 'the little adapter' is not a worthy device in terms of getting quality.

Whatever your signal chain previous to the conversion (done by interface) is subject to discussion, but no matter how good or bad it is sent to the computer is determined by the interface. These vary in quality and price between $50 and $8000.

The one you mentioned, and yet have given the model of, is likely way below adequate for good conversion of the sound you are looking for. Many have tried to take shortcuts. It does not work...

 

[Hazard Nova]

Oh, okay. Thanks for the clarification, now I understand.

So, what if I ditched the USB altogether? The only reason I was doing USB before was because I wanted to monitor the sound the computer was getting, and these days Macs don't come with separate headphone and mic jacks. (Because Apple's all like "screw you guys, it doesn't look nice.")

If I forego real-time monitoring what the computer hears and go from Mixer (which I'd monitor) > XLR-to-1/8" cable > computer, do you think I'd get a noticeable increase in signal quality?

 

[Hazard Nova]

Gotcha, thanks for the explanation.

 

[JimmyS1969]

Oh, okay. Thanks for the clarification, now I understand.

So, what if I ditched the USB altogether? The only reason I was doing USB before was because I wanted to monitor the sound the computer was getting, and these days Macs don't come with separate headphone and mic jacks. (Because Apple's all like "screw you guys, it doesn't look nice.")

If I forego real-time monitoring what the computer hears and go from Mixer (which I'd monitor) > XLR-to-1/8" cable > computer, do you think I'd get a noticeable increase in signal quality?

NOO!!

Dood, get a decent interface. Forget about your onboard soundcard/1/8" input/ or anything that does not involve purchasing a 'external interface'.

Read this 'Sticky'. You need to understand what and how things work with digital recording.

No offense, but you really need to do some research yourself before asking further questions. Not that I am not willing to answer, but there is no hope to using your on-board soundcard no matter what computer you have. That is the #1 most question asked by new members. It has already been answered a million times. NO!!!

Buy an interface or waste valuable time that you could be using creating music.

 

[miroslav]

If I forego real-time monitoring what the computer hears and go from Mixer (which I'd monitor) > XLR-to-1/8" cable > computer, do you think I'd get a noticeable increase in signal quality?

Nope...that's not any better, maybe worse.

See, if you get a decent (and that don't mean expensive) interface, you'll get the better quality, have some more I/O options, and also better monitoring options....with a nice 2-channel interface, you might even skip the mixer altogether for some things if the interface has a mic preamp and instrument DI.
If you must or want to use the mixer....the interface should have Line inputs too (some may not, they might only do Mic/Instrument), so check for that. Also, a two channel interface lets you record in stereo or two separate channels..(not sure what you had with the XLR/USB thingy)....and if you need more individual channels, they make interfaces with 4, 8, 16...etc.....it's all about $$$.

How you go from the interfacet to your computer, that depends on what your computer will take...USB, Firewire or there's other options. Sounds like for you it will be USB.

 

[XploZiveToyz]

You have to have an interface! There isn't a way around it. Period.