know a good guitar amp for a heavy rock tone?

"know a good guitar amp for a heavy rock tone?"


well,

if you took a poll, of every rock band since, say, 1966 to the current date....

and counted the percentage of them that use, say, MARSHALL


what do you get?



MAYBE............ that'd be the place to start.

serious about tone, but not serious about the costs to get it, i see.

i'd stick with whatever you have, and save up.
 
NotThatBright said:
I'm tired of having shit guitar tones, I need a new amp; I'd like to cap the spend at $400. I want something that sounds good for heavy rock or metal-type tones. Does anyone have any suggestions based on his experience? No less than 40 watts. If $400 isn't enough, I'd go as high as $550, but I'd prefer to keep it at $400 or lower. Thanks.
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Do you want the amp for recording of playing with a band? If you're recording I would sacrifice some wattage and get a decent tube amp.
If you're playing with a band, at that money I would get a good solid state peavey and a decent pedal or two. That would be fine for metal. When you say metal what sort of thing are you playing.
40W is pretty loud though. You won't need more than that for pubs or small clubs. You'll have to start micing the drummer
 
JDOD said:
Do you want the amp for recording of playing with a band? If you're recording I would sacrifice some wattage and get a decent tube amp.
If you're playing with a band, at that money I would get a good solid state peavey and a decent pedal or two. That would be fine for metal. When you say metal what sort of thing are you playing.
40W is pretty loud though. You won't need more than that for pubs or small clubs. You'll have to start micing the drummer
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No, I gotta disagree. 40w solid state, and pedals, is going to yield a very weak, thin, compressed fizz sound that will never cut and punch enough to work with a live metal band. I don't think it would come close to being loud enough, or sound good enough, to compete with live drums and bass. Throw in another guitar player that's actually playing through a good rig and that 40w SS rig will vanish. Metal needs punch and headroom. All that chugga chugga and gain is best done with tubes.
 
Greg_L said:
No, I gotta disagree. 40w solid state, and pedals, is going to yield a very weak, thin, compressed fizz sound that will never cut and punch enough to work with a live metal band. I don't think it would come close to being loud enough, or sound good enough, to compete with live drums and bass. Throw in another guitar player that's actually playing through a good rig and that 40w SS rig will vanish. Metal needs punch and headroom. All that chugga chugga and gain is best done with tubes.
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I way agree ...... if I were going SS I'd want a couple hundred watts if you're talking live metal band.

But if we're looking 40 SS watts I'd much rather have a 15 watt tube amp and neither is gonna be loud enough on their own to keep up with a rock drumber ..... my Tiny Terror will keep up to around moderate levels and I often run my Blue Angel at 18 watts with bands as long as they don't really get loud.
But with a loudish band, the Blue Angel won't keep up even at it's max of 38 watts.

For the studio power requirements are a bit more relaxed, of course.

But if we're talking loud rock/metal band live here, then you need at least 50 tube watts .... 100 would give you more headroom.
 
Guys, I agree a tube amp would be better. But I'm thinking about the budget. To me he's got about £300 to spend.

Peavey are well known for getting good metal/thrash tones out of their solid state gear and for £300 you can probably get a Bandit which is 60W.

I never had to push my bandit past about 6 on the master and it was plenty loud enough for a small local club or pub.

It sounds pretty fucked now but then it hasn't been looked after for the last 10 years really. Long periods stored in damp garages and stuff.

Is the OP still about?

Just checked, the Bandit is now 80W and you can pick them up even cheaper:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/ampl...ifier-with-transtube-technology#productDetail
 
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JDOD said:
Guys, I agree a tube amp would be better. But I'm thinking about the budget. To me he's got about £300 to spend.

Peavey are well known for getting good metal/thrash tones out of their solid state gear and for £300 you can probably get a Bandit which is 60W.

I never had to push my bandit past about 6 on the master and it was plenty loud enough for a small local club or pub.

It sounds pretty fucked now but then it hasn't been looked after for the last 10 years really. Long periods stored in damp garages and stuff.

Is the OP still about?

Just checked, the Bandit is now 80W and you can pick them up even cheaper:
Peavey Bandit 112 Guitar Amplifier with TransTube Technology | Musician's Friend
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none of those choices really sound very good.
he asked for a 'good guitar amp'

there comes a point, where budget isn't as important as the tone search...
and you either get serious about it, or just get utilitarian about it.
 
GONZO-X said:
well,

if you took a poll, of every rock band since, say, 1966 to the current date....

and counted the percentage of them that use, say, MARSHALL


what do you get?



MAYBE............ that'd be the place to start.
Click to expand...

Maybe... but, do that same experiment since, say, 1995, and you get a Mesa Rectifier. ;)

Really, especially as all-tube "lunchbox" heads have been coming into fashion, there's a lot of great options out there, some even falling within his budget A few are Marshalls, but a whole bunch are not (and I tend not to like modern Marshalls, FWIW).

Also, it's surprising how loud a low-wattage tube amp can get. A buddy of mine just snagged a Mesa Mark-V 25, and was telling me that even in 10-watt mode it's too loud for home use. I had a 15-watt Fender Blues Jr sitting behind me right now, and behing perfectly honest here it's easier to dial up a "bedroom" volume tone on my 100-watt Mesa Roadster half stack than it is that thing (which to be fair has a killer clean tone when you hit it with a Strat). Don't overthink the wattage - that Fender could hang with a drummer as could a Mark-V in 10 watt mode. Tube watts are LOUD.
 
DrewPeterson7 said:
Maybe... but, do that same experiment since, say, 1995, and you get a Mesa Rectifier. ;)

Really, especially as all-tube "lunchbox" heads have been coming into fashion, there's a lot of great options out there, some even falling within his budget .
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I'm WAY interested in that Carvin V3 micro
 
Lt. Bob said:
I'm WAY interested in that Carvin V3 micro
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I have a huge soft spot for, well, pretty much anything Mesa... but the new Peavy 6505 20-watter looked pretty cool, and the video footage I've seen of the Soldano Hot Rod 25 in action had me floored. Of course, the Soldano is a $2k 25 watt head, so it's in a slightly different league... :laughings:
 
DrewPeterson7 said:
Maybe... but, do that same experiment since, say, 1995, and you get a Mesa Rectifier. ;)

Really, especially as all-tube "lunchbox" heads have been coming into fashion, there's a lot of great options out there, some even falling within his budget A few are Marshalls, but a whole bunch are not (and I tend not to like modern Marshalls, FWIW).

Also, it's surprising how loud a low-wattage tube amp can get. A buddy of mine just snagged a Mesa Mark-V 25, and was telling me that even in 10-watt mode it's too loud for home use. I had a 15-watt Fender Blues Jr sitting behind me right now, and behing perfectly honest here it's easier to dial up a "bedroom" volume tone on my 100-watt Mesa Roadster half stack than it is that thing (which to be fair has a killer clean tone when you hit it with a Strat). Don't overthink the wattage - that Fender could hang with a drummer as could a Mark-V in 10 watt mode. Tube watts are LOUD.
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I think it sometimes gets overlooked that there's a huge vast difference between jamming at home loudness and jamming with a band loudness. Sure, a 10w amp can be stupidly loud for home use with a baby sleeping in the next room and a wife watching TV, but those same 10 watts get destroyed when you throw in a drummer, amplified bass, and maybe another guitarist. A little amp cranked to the moon with no headroom and everything compressed and mushing out is not a recipe for good punch and clarity. Headroom is key when playing with a band. Bigger amps have much better headroom and clarity. It depends on the music you play and where you play it, but IMO a live guitarist would do best with at least 30 tube watts to be heard with clarity in a full rock band situation without sound reinforcement.
 
Greg_L said:
I think it sometimes gets overlooked that there's a huge vast difference between jamming at home loudness and jamming with a band loudness. Sure, a 10w amp can be stupidly loud for home use with a baby sleeping in the next room and a wife watching TV, but those same 10 watts get destroyed when you throw in a drummer, amplified bass, and maybe another guitarist. A little amp cranked to the moon with no headroom and everything compressed and mushing out is not a recipe for good punch and clarity. Headroom is key when playing with a band. Bigger amps have much better headroom and clarity. It depends on the music you play and where you play it, but IMO a live guitarist would do best with at least 30 tube watts to be heard with clarity in a full rock band situation without sound reinforcement.
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^^^^^^ this ^^^^^
 
I almost hate to say this but if you're looking for high gain metal type sound don't ignore the Line 6 Spyder range, especially if coupled with their POD HD range of pedal boards.

For years we've had Marshall combos, heads and quads and finally settled on the "M" 2 x 100watt power amp with a JCM800 quad, pre's used with this have included a Peavey unit and Mesa V Twin. I've a Rivera 5512 which will rip your balls off and shove them somewhere uncomfortable, plus a smaller Vox valve amp which I love.........BUT, ultimately, none of these would "cut it" for my son in his metal bands.

Less than a year ago, he purchased a Line 6 HD150 head and matching quad, plus a POD HD pedal board........all I can say is "Holy Phuck".........you want high gain metal tones, they're there, you want clean bluesy bell like tones, they're there......and everything in between. While I'm not a Line 6 convert, I have to admit I've become more accepting.

OK, I'm talking over your budget but there are combos that would probably suit........could be worth having a look at.

:cool:
 
Greg_L said:
A little amp cranked to the moon with no headroom and everything compressed and mushing out is not a recipe for good punch and clarity. Headroom is key when playing with a band. Bigger amps have much better headroom and clarity.
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I'll agree to a point - the biggest difference between a 50 and 100 watt head, and a 25 and a 50, and a 15 and a 25 etc, is not going to be volume (the extra dB you're getting out of them isn't that huge), but the headroom. For some things, less headroom isn't a bad thing. If you're playing in a blues band, or doing Led Zep or AC/DC style hard rock, by all means go with a lower wattage amp because the overdriving power section is part of the sound you're after. If you're playing modern metal with a clear, punishing low end, though... The less your poweramp distorts the better off you are.

Also, Mesas are louder than God for no reason I can put my finger on. I'd at least be game to try a 25-watt Rectoverb 25 or Mark V 25 in a band context, even if I was playing hard rock (modern metal, probably not, however, especially if I was tuning down or playing a seven string).
 
DrewPeterson7 said:
I'll agree to a point - the biggest difference between a 50 and 100 watt head, and a 25 and a 50, and a 15 and a 25 etc, is not going to be volume (the extra dB you're getting out of them isn't that huge), but the headroom. For some things, less headroom isn't a bad thing. If you're playing in a blues band, or doing Led Zep or AC/DC style hard rock, by all means go with a lower wattage amp because the overdriving power section is part of the sound you're after. If you're playing modern metal with a clear, punishing low end, though... The less your poweramp distorts the better off you are.

Also, Mesas are louder than God for no reason I can put my finger on. I'd at least be game to try a 25-watt Rectoverb 25 or Mark V 25 in a band context, even if I was playing hard rock (modern metal, probably not, however, especially if I was tuning down or playing a seven string).
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You're right that it's not really about the actual volume. It's all about headroom. Even if you're playing classic rock like Zep or AC/DC, the headroom of bigger wattage is key. Listen to the clarity in AC/DC riffs. That's big watt headroom even at massive volumes. They aren't using little combos on chairs. A little watt amp won't cut it live for damn near anything but maybe some blues or jazz with a light drummer and soft rhythm section.

This is all assuming there is no PA for guitars. You gotta fill the room on your own. If you're miking cabs, you obviously have a little more wiggle room. Then it becomes a tonal consideration. A smaller watt amp flattening out might be the sound you wanna mic through the mains. I'd still prefer the big clarity and thump of big amps.
 
Gerg is so right about lower wattage amps in live band situations - I guess a 30 watt tube amp could work in most.

It's rare to play in even a smallish place these days without mandatory sound reinforcement - but even with that, I tend to get disoriented unless I can hear sound directly from the amp
 
antichef said:
Gerg is so right about lower wattage amps in live band situations - I guess a 30 watt tube amp could work in most.

It's rare to play in even a smallish place these days without mandatory sound reinforcement - but even with that, I tend to get disoriented unless I can hear sound directly from the amp
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I use either a Mesa Mark V or my Mesa Blue Angel in band situations ......
the Mark V will keep up with anything ... it's pretty bad-ass. ...... I typically put all the channels on 45 watts but I'll often set the clean on 90 watts.

The Blue Angel ..... well, it's an unusual Mesa .... one channel ..... doesn't even have a master volume.
I can run it on one or both of 2 sets of power tubes. 4EL84's and 2 6V6's.
Just the 6V6's give you 18 watts and that sort of sound .... sorta Fendery
Just the 4 EL 84's fives 33 watts and the chimey thing you get with that set-up
Both together give you 38 watts and a very full round sound.

So ....... I use 18 watts for very soft bands .... but mostly run just the EL84's in most situations.
With a loud band ..... even the 38 watts won't do it ..... it'll get loud enough but it's straining and there's no headroom at all ...

But my Mark V or any of my '70-'71 Ampegs will kick even a loud drummers ass! :D
 
The speakers and number of speakers is going to help too. A 20 watt amp through a 4x12 cab loaded with very efficient speakers will be way louder in the room than that same amp feeding one Greenback in a 1x12.

I used to own a Diamond Assassin 18w EL84 head, and I had my hands on an Orange TH30 for a little while. Through my Greenback/G12-65 loaded 4x12, both amps were hurting to cut through my full band at practice. Those speakers sound fantastic, but they're soft and relatively inefficient. With a Vintage 30 4x12, they did much much better. Vintage 30s are known for their cut and punch, but they're also significantly louder, more efficient speakers than Greenbacks. Watt for watt, a 100db speaker is way louder than a 96db speaker. Efficient speakers and a bunch of them will help a little amp act like a bigger amp.
 
Greg_L said:
The speakers and number of speakers is going to help too. A 20 watt amp through a 4x12 cab loaded with very efficient speakers will be way louder in the room than that same amp feeding one Greenback in a 1x12.

I used to own a Diamond Assassin 18w EL84 head, and I had my hands on an Orange TH30 for a little while. Through my Greenback/G12-65 loaded 4x12, both amps were hurting to cut through my full band at practice. Those speakers sound fantastic, but they're soft and relatively inefficient. With a Vintage 30 4x12, they did much much better. Vintage 30s are known for their cut and punch, but they're also significantly louder, more efficient speakers than Greenbacks. Watt for watt, a 100db speaker is way louder than a 96db speaker. Efficient speakers and a bunch of them will help a little amp act like a bigger amp.
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^^^^^ this again ..... you're on a roll!! :D ^^^^^

Yeah, speakers efficiency can make a HUGE difference in volume.
 
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