kick drum recording.

[wjgypsy]

every time i here a great recording of drum i ask..."where did you place the mic on the kick drum?" and they always say..."right outside of the bass drum pointing at the hole to the right."
the sound that i want is a big,fat,low-end,loud kick drum sound.

every time i try this, i always get the same thing... a dirty,muddy sound that i can almost not even hear in the mix. i have tuned my kick to where i like it and i've even bought a shure beta 52 mic and recorded with it's eq set on flat. but it just sounds bad.


what a'm i doing wrong?




help!

 

[BrettB]

I am used to mic him inside, aimed at the place where it is actually is being hit. With a decent mic and decent kick this gives a good standard kick sound. I give it most of the punch during eq'ing afterwards: shelf below 50Hz, usually an attack between 50 and 100Hz, sometimes a muddy frequency between 300 Hz or 400Hz that has to be diminished and some high end to give it some extra sparkle.

The results of micing outside were always better than the one I had when I miced inside. By the way, in the article about Nirvana's Nevermind that was posted on the recording techniques board Butch Vig tells about the kick on that: besides micing only insides he made a sort of an artificial tunnel of a few meters with some cymbals, and miced a second time at the end of that tunnel, for some extra punch. I never tried that one though.

 

[wjgypsy]

brett b,

i for got to tell you that i'm recording with a fostex vf16 16-track daw, so my only eq is a parametric on each channel,compression on 2 channels and effects for all channels. i hope to buy some grafic eq some day. is there any way that you can tell me all those eq settings again in parametric talk?

 

[BrettB]

mm.. only compression on 2 tracks?.. If you play, or your drummer plays, consistent and is a beginner you can consider not to use the compressor on the kick because maybe you can better use it on the vocals or the snare or whatever...

I don't know how precise your parametric EQ is, just try to listen where the kick's attack is, and where it sounds muddy. The way I listen is I boost the Q to 16, the gain with 10 dB and while I have these settings I change frequency. Once I have the frequency I want, I diminish the gain and the Q to the porporions I want.

When you have a more basic EQ you can have the problem that you can't find 100% sure the frequency you need. (suppose there is an attck at 75 Hz, and you're EQ just goes from 50 to 100). Just use your ears then for hearing what would be best.

 

[elevate]

Zeke - didn't you post a thread a few weeks ago how you were able to get a phat kick sound? What happened?

 

[Whoopysnorp]

I have a Sonor 20" kick with a Remo Powerstroke III batter head and a Remo Ambassador resonant head with a 5" hole cut in it at about 4 o'clock. I don't have any muffling. I stick the end of my mic (Sennheiser e602) inside the hole and get a pretty cool sound. Messing with placement makes a lot of difference. Here's a song of mine that was recorded in this way: Put It In H

I used a hard plastic beater. I've since gotten a double kick pedal and I'm still using the felt beaters that came with them because I haven't gotten around to buying harder ones. I think harder beaters sound better; I like the extra attack. Zeke, I play with a guy who has a 24" kick and the same kick mic you do. He gets a great sound; if you want me to I'll find a clip of that too and post it.

 

[wjgypsy]

to whoopysnorp and elevate,

whoopysnorp,

it would be great if you cound post that cilp of the beta 52!
the song that you posted was nice,but i cound not here the kick. nice snare and toms though. thanks!

elevate,

you see that sound that i found works well for some stuff,but i just think that i have not made it sound it's best (yet).sence i have posted that thread, it has lead me to better sounding things that where better. i have fould that a good way to get a fat
kick drum, is to double mic the kick.(beta 52 inside on the bottom on a piece of foam rubber about 3-5" away from the back and a condinser on the outside pointed at a small hole to the right. then i eq it and it sounds nice. but i just think that it could sound better. i will post a mp3 of this sound in a few days.


keep yo eyes open,


zeke

 

[Blake Long]

Whoopysnorp---
I heard your kick loud and clear. It sounds great. By the way that song is mixed I can tell you must be the drummer and the engineer/mixer! What did you use on the toms and snare?

 

[Whoopysnorp]

Blake--

Thanks for confirming that there is kick in there; I hear it well, but Zeke made me wonder. Also, thanks for the compliments. I played all the instruments on this track and did all the recording; it's a real one-man effort. The snare mic is the old standard SM57. The snare was tuned really nice when I recorded this, and I haven't been able to replicate it, unfortunately. I love the sound. There is also a single SM57 between the rack toms, and the floor tom is just coming through the overheads (I don't have a third 57 to use on it, unfortunately). Since I use 5 mics on my drums and only have 4 inputs to the computer, I mix the tom mic in with the overheads. Because of this, I have to use the endorphin freeware multiband compressor to punch up the lows in the overheads and really get those toms to punch through. I'm quite satisfied with the results.

Zeke--

I'll get a clip out of one of our jams and post it pretty quick here.

 

[Whoopysnorp]

Here you go: El clip

This is an excerpt from an improvisation one of my bands did. The kick doesn't come in for about thirty seconds, but I wanted to include the musical lead-in (because I think it's pretty cool ). It's also kind of quiet, so give it a little extra volume. This was recorded on two tracks direct to Minidisc. The entire body of the kick mic is well inside the drum on this one. I'd be happy to share any other mic info.

 

[wondercrush]

My Turn!

Hi-

I thought I would comment because my band and I just finished setting up my drum sound for recording.
We tried all sorts of things - we tried the "tried and true" method of sticking the mic in the hole pointed towards the beater (but not right at the beater, air whoosh bad), we tried sticking it a few inches outside the whole, not good. Finally, I tuned the bass drum down (right before the heads wrinkle) and stuck the mic on the beater side. Whamo! That's it... that is the sound I've been looking for...

I guess what I'm trying to say is that no one way is good for everyone. You have to experiment to see what works for your kit, your playing style, your tuning. When our singer sat down to play my drums, so I could here how they sounded, I asked the bass player how they sounded when I played, he said better. Get my point? All very individual.

Good luck!

 

[wjgypsy]

ON THE BEATER SIDE?

DO YOU MEAN THAT YOU PUT THE ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE BACK HEAD? OR INSIDE THE BASS DRUM? ANY WAY I THINK I'LL TRY IT!

 

[Wireneck]

shure beta 52

Zeke,
I also use a Beta 52 when I record drums. My biggest problem with the 52 seems to be getting it to cut through in the mix. Ive tried different placements but ive gotten the best results with the 52 by using almost nothing to muffle the kick. I still haven't gotten the sound that im looking for with this mic yet though.
Whoopysnorp, I checked out your file, there is definantly kick.

 

[Whoopysnorp]

Thanks, Wireneck. Did you check out the second clip? That's a Beta 52.

 

[wondercrush]

Zeke

Yes, I mean I put it on the outside, on the kick pedal side. Our mic is about 2-3" away from the head and it is pointed up above the beater about 1-2". Combined with tuning the drum heads to the point right beyond wrinkle, an Aquarian head and mic placement, we are getting a great low end, full bodied bass drum sound.

The front and batter head are tuned the same ( I bought one of those Drum Torque things and used that to tune - that way I know the heads are tuned precisely).

I also use a hard plastic beater, which helps with more projection, though I put all my body weight behind the pedal as it is.

 

[Wireneck]

track using Beta 52

I recorded this demo for a friend using a Beta 52 on the kick. Everything was pretty much done live and not really isolated but maybe if you listen someone can see what im talking about not being able to get the 52 to cut through the mix. If i turn it up loud enough where the top end of the kick is audible there is way to much of a bass response even after i take some of the lows out on the Eq. I dont know maybe someone has a suggestion.

I forgot to say that the first 30 seconds is a drum loop off a krappy keyboard. The real drums come in right around 30 secs.

 

[alonso]

We finished the drum tracks for our album a while ago and the bass drum sounds killer, the engineer put a mic inside i think about or a little less than a foot pointing at the head but not at the center, to the right. Then we took the front head off and put a blanket over some stands in front of the opening of the drum, sort of like a tunnel in front of the drum, and inside there he put another mic, then checked them both for phase cancellation and voila!!!! a great drum sound...

 

[Tim Brown]

By the way, in the article about Nirvana's Nevermind that was posted on the recording techniques board Butch Vig tells about the kick on that: besides micing only insides he made a sort of an artificial tunnel of a few meters with some cymbals, and miced a second time at the end of that tunnel, for some extra punch. I never tried that one though.

Yeah, but those drum sounds are not what made it onto the Record. Andy Wallace mixed that record because the label wasn't sure of Vig's mixes since that was the first major release that he had worked on. Wallace replaced the original drumsounds with ddrums, which he always does. He's the "track replacement master".




Tim

 

[philsaudio]

Re: brett b,

i for got to tell you that i'm recording with a fostex vf16 16-track daw, so my only eq is a parametric on each channel,compression on 2 channels and effects for all channels. i hope to buy some grafic eq some day. is there any way that you can tell me all those eq settings again in parametric talk?

The single problem with the VF-16 ( I own one) is the low frequency EQ. The rocket scientists at Fostex give you a 400 Hz shelf for the low EQ and this SUCKS. Before I got a seperate mixer for the drums ( connected through a Fostex VC8 for 16 simultanious track recording) I put a parametric on the inserts of 15 and 16. That did the trick.

Wild Phil Harmonica.

 

[Mox]

Simple, do both....

Mic inside to get slap and punch, you can even use a 57, and then use a more traditional bass drum mic to get the boom...stir and enjoy