keyboard stereo recording problem

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ben HP

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hi all,
i wanna record a piano song with my keyboard,
but my problem is in stereo recording usually left signal and right signal are not equal,
sometimes left signal is stronger and sometimes right,
when my record has finished i want do compression and EQ and prepare my track for mixing and mastering but left and right has different Peak and RMS average so what should i do in this case ???
as you can see in picture peak and RMS average numbers are different and left signal has a higher peak,,,,,

tk9_untitled.webp
 
I guess I'd be surprised if they were measurably always the same! The question is, how does it sound? If you're happy with the mix don't worry, and if it's unbalanced, you can fix that in numerous ways, like EQ and compression. But this is also something that can be addressed in the mastering step if you think the mix is good.

Posting an actual clip might help because there's at least one contributor here who does a lot of keyboard stuff.
 
This is one for using the ears before the eyes, in my opinion.
A mastering engineer's take would be interesting, where a solo piano piece is concerned, but certainly in a mix I leave this alone.

The common reason that the left side is 'louder' is because it has more low frequency content due to the microphone placement, or digital approximation if it's a digital keyboard.
For all things to sound equal low frequencies require more power so what looks louder may actually be well balanced.

As Keith asked, how does it sound?
 
keith.rogers said:
I guess I'd be surprised if they were measurably always the same! The question is, how does it sound? If you're happy with the mix don't worry, and if it's unbalanced, you can fix that in numerous ways, like EQ and compression. But this is also something that can be addressed in the mastering step if you think the mix is good.

Posting an actual clip might help because there's at least one contributor here who does a lot of keyboard stuff.
Click to expand...



Steenamaroo said:
This is one for using the ears before the eyes, in my opinion.
A mastering engineer's take would be interesting, where a solo piano piece is concerned, but certainly in a mix I leave this alone.

The common reason that the left side is 'louder' is because it has more low frequency content due to the microphone placement, or digital approximation if it's a digital keyboard.
For all things to sound equal low frequencies require more power so what looks louder may actually be well balanced.

As Keith asked, how does it sound?
Click to expand...

Sound is perfect and Balanced,
but problem is after compression and maximizing, RMS average and peak on left and right signal still show different numbers,
and i imported some market songs in cubase i have noticed all songs RMS average and Peak number on left and right signal were same,
its confusing meeee,

12.webp
 
I think this is a problem of too much information. As Steen stated, listen in the mix, while these visual graphs are good to hunt a problem, they shouldn't be used to create a problem you don't have.

Listen, if you don't like, then use tools to sort it out, if you do... next.
 
The only way to reduce the differences in the two channels that I can think of is to feed them into an "MS" encoder then reduce the level of the difference signal. Upon decoding it should be 'less stereo'!

Or! Surely Reaper (e.g.) has an 'Image Width' plugin?

Dave.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
Ignore the numbers.
Click to expand...


DM60 said:
I think this is a problem of too much information. As Steen stated, listen in the mix, while these visual graphs are good to hunt a problem, they shouldn't be used to create a problem you don't have.

Listen, if you don't like, then use tools to sort it out, if you do... next.
Click to expand...


ecc83 said:
The only way to reduce the differences in the two channels that I can think of is to feed them into an "MS" encoder then reduce the level of the difference signal. Upon decoding it should be 'less stereo'!

Or! Surely Reaper (e.g.) has an 'Image Width' plugin?

Dave.
Click to expand...



okokok i ignore numbers,
as you can see in first thread picture i have piano track that i record it with my keyboard,
tell me after compression and maximizing how can know my track loudness is good as market songs loudness ???
 
I record loads of piano - as it's a major part of my income stream. This is real piano AND VSTi piano, and left and right tracks are NEVER equal. If it winds you up, and you want to fix it, even if this makes the thing sound wrong, then simply raise one of the channels, but I've never er done this in my life, because real pianos have huge amounts of energy in the left hand, and those dinky short strings higher up lack real power. That's how pianos work. I'm also really surprised you are compressing and maximising a piano? I assume it's some heavily effected poppy track that is meant to be LOUD?

If it really winds you up, who not just change the levels on record to favour the lower channel if you have to have the meters the same? Frankly, the only question should be "what does it sound like?" If it sounds good, and not offset to one side in the monitors then it's fine.

It's never even occurred to me to analyse a recording like you have. What's the point? All my stuff is classical, jazz or show tunes based - and quiet songs are low, loud pieces are loud - nothing is normalised. Pop and rock piano is different of course - but then then, piano is rarely lacking dynamics, while electric piano sounds is often lower in dynamic range.
 
rob aylestone said:
I record loads of piano - as it's a major part of my income stream. This is real piano AND VSTi piano, and left and right tracks are NEVER equal. If it winds you up, and you want to fix it, even if this makes the thing sound wrong, then simply raise one of the channels, but I've never er done this in my life, because real pianos have huge amounts of energy in the left hand, and those dinky short strings higher up lack real power. That's how pianos work. I'm also really surprised you are compressing and maximising a piano? I assume it's some heavily effected poppy track that is meant to be LOUD?

If it really winds you up, who not just change the levels on record to favour the lower channel if you have to have the meters the same? Frankly, the only question should be "what does it sound like?" If it sounds good, and not offset to one side in the monitors then it's fine.

It's never even occurred to me to analyse a recording like you have. What's the point? All my stuff is classical, jazz or show tunes based - and quiet songs are low, loud pieces are loud - nothing is normalised. Pop and rock piano is different of course - but then then, piano is rarely lacking dynamics, while electric piano sounds is often lower in dynamic range.
Click to expand...

yeah i understand what are you talking about, piano should have strong low sounds, im agree
and i dont wanna make lower not weak, but how can i export a loud piano without compression or maximizing ,
please tell me what do you do after record piano in a daw ?????
 
ben HP said:
No complete song not only piano
Click to expand...

Then a comparison for balance isn't really going to work.
For solo piano I imagine it'd be desirable to maintain the natural balance so max volume would be dictated by the left side.
As I say, though, I'd love to hear what an experienced ME would do.
 
ben HP said:
No, complete song, not only piano.
Click to expand...

I added punctuation to clarify how I'm interpreting your statement.

It's way too early in the process to worry about numbers and final volume. Just get it into your project with a decent level that's not clipping.

Once it's in the project, do what it takes to make it sound good in the mix. That might mean cutting lows or altering the panning or adding compression, all depending on how it needs to sit in the mix.
 
Is your piece just piano or piano and other instruments and voice? Volume is relative. Relative to other recordings you might put together, but also to other people's recordings. If you take a typical commercial CD of solo piano music, you see variations. In these two waveforms you see a piece of piano music by Eric Satie, and another by Chopin. They're wild different volumes. There is no need to normalise the quiet one - it's meant to be quiet. The other one is very similar in volume until it gets very loud. Have a look on Spotify and find something similar to yours and see how loud that is. I don't have any specific level I aim for, I just have a volume control in my studio I don't change, and if I do my job properly when we record, then the meters don't show any peaks on the loud bits, because few pieces of piano music go as loud as the piano really could go - so level is just almost preset. In fact, we often don't put the mics away, and the only time we see red lights is when one of the booms drops. If you want your music to conform, then it just has to not need the listener to turn it up or down from the setting they played another piano track on.


pianovolume.webp
 
rob aylestone said:
Is your piece just piano or piano and other instruments and voice? Volume is relative. Relative to other recordings you might put together, but also to other people's recordings. If you take a typical commercial CD of solo piano music, you see variations. In these two waveforms you see a piece of piano music by Eric Satie, and another by Chopin. They're wild different volumes. There is no need to normalise the quiet one - it's meant to be quiet. The other one is very similar in volume until it gets very loud. Have a look on Spotify and find something similar to yours and see how loud that is. I don't have any specific level I aim for, I just have a volume control in my studio I don't change, and if I do my job properly when we record, then the meters don't show any peaks on the loud bits, because few pieces of piano music go as loud as the piano really could go - so level is just almost preset. In fact, we often don't put the mics away, and the only time we see red lights is when one of the booms drops. If you want your music to conform, then it just has to not need the listener to turn it up or down from the setting they played another piano track on.


View attachment 102437
Click to expand...

yeah thats right,
i wanna put piano song here ,
and please download it and tell me what do you think about it,
and i wanna know how you will mix and master this track and how much will be your loudness after mix and master,
here is link to download : Yanni last - Instaudio
thanks alot....
 
Last edited:
anyone can help me?
this is solo piano track can you please mix and master it ??
i just wanna know how much loudness will take after mix and master,,,,
here is the track : Yanni last - Instaudio
 
Ok - I've had a listen. Did you play that live and just record it or is it from a midi file you've created?

Your left hand is incredibly heavy compared to the right, with sustained close groups of notes. It's sounding very compressed and lacking dynamics that probably were there, and it has too much power down low and not enough up top, which no doubt makes that channel louder.

Have you got the version before you treated it? If it's a midi file that you could send me - I'll see what I can do with that if you like, but I can't think of anything that would sort that track out - it's just too 'full'. Personally, I'd not want top do anything to make that louder - it's already too loud.
 
rob aylestone said:
Ok - I've had a listen. Did you play that live and just record it or is it from a midi file you've created?

Your left hand is incredibly heavy compared to the right, with sustained close groups of notes. It's sounding very compressed and lacking dynamics that probably were there, and it has too much power down low and not enough up top, which no doubt makes that channel louder.

Have you got the version before you treated it? If it's a midi file that you could send me - I'll see what I can do with that if you like, but I can't think of anything that would sort that track out - it's just too 'full'. Personally, I'd not want top do anything to make that louder - it's already too loud.
Click to expand...

No its not midi i record it as audio from my 88 keys keyboard,
yes left hand play many note with sustain, i told its a piano track
i record it as audio but i can record as midi and export it
is it too loud?????
i have mixed it to video and put it on my instagram but sound loudness was even weaker than some guys who record direct with cellphone....
i also compare that with other piano track and was weaker,
so how it can be loud ????
please give me your email to send midi file,
 
Definitely listen rather than look.

I remember one night many years ago at a world famous venue where I was in charge of the sound dept, one of the younger sound guys (actually went on to ultimately become quite famous and respected) was doing a live mix of a concert performance and we had just taken delivery of a new spectrum analyzer and he had this sitting on top of the console.

I came in to see if he/everything was OK and while pointing to the new toy, he floored me with the comment ---- "doesn't the sound of the flute look great".

My immediate thought (to myself !!!) was --- "how was I for so many years, able to get a good sound (was going to say "great sound", but I think that would be a bit much !!!!!!!), by just using my ears rather than my eyes".

My moto has always been,---- if it sounds good then it is good, irrespective of what any meter/instrument might indicate.

Just something to think about !!!

David
 
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