Just starting recording!

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fletch1988

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Hi,

I've been writing songs for years but have never really properly started recording the songs yet, but now I have decided to invest in the equipment to do so, so that I can make high quality recordings and put them on myspace, youtube etc and various sites. I was wondering if I could have a bit of advice on what the best set up would be, as I am unsure on a number of things!

A few years ago I bought a few bits of equipment - I have a Peavey PV6 Mixer, Audiophile 24/96 sound card, and an audio-technica AT 2020 condenser microphone

The way that I always used to record was not through a USB interface, but by plugging the microphone or guitar directly into the mixer, which was then connected to the soundcard - is this a good way to do it?

Would it be a good idea to buy a Boss VE 20 vocal effects processer (presumably this can be connected to the mixer which would then be connected to the soundcard?)

I am also considereing buying a set of M- audio studiophile AV 40 monitors as they get good reviews.

For synthesizers etc I would probably buy the Novation XioSynth 25 Analogue Modelling/Synthesizer. (I presume this can also go through the mixer?)

Finally, I used to record with cakewalk guitar tracks, but would probably get Cakewalk Sonar to record with.

I would appreciate any advice as I want to make sure that I know what I'm getting before I splash a load of money on it!

Thanks! :-)
 
The mixer into soundcard setup is what I use and I'm quite happy with it. I don't know anything about your sound card. Naturally it needs to be a decent one. If you bought it after the fact it probably is. Must, of course, have stereo line in, as opposed to just the mic in that some OEM cards are limited to. As long as your sound card is pretty good, get some software (or just download Reaper if you don't want to part with cash) and you are in business as far as recording. That way you can spend your money on whatever instruments/synth/whatever you want to buy.

Oh, and sooner or later you'll want some means of midi in/out, which your Soundcard probably already supports. For mine, I just had to buy a little double pig-tail adapter to plug into the d-sub jack on the sound card and download a driver. The adapter let me plug regular midi cables in and it works great.

I don't know anything about the vocal effects processor, so I can't comment on that.

Good luck...
J
 
Mixer+soundcard can be a great way to go. Monitoring your live sources through an analog mixer eliminates monitoring latency as an issue.

I wouldn't bother with a vocal processor unless you plan to use blatant effects that you need to hear while tracking. For the usual eq/comp/verb just use plugins in the software.

Definitely get good monitors. They will be the lens through which you judge everything. Note that the room and the placement of the speakers in it are key factors.

You can put most any audio source through the mixer if you have inputs available.

Most any DAW will get the job done. I find some frustrating and others a breeze to operate. You have to decide for yourself which one makes the most sense. Reaper is cheap and good. Pro Tools is not so cheap, is the industry standard and annoys the heck out of me. I much prefer Sony Vegas, but it's a little pricey because it's also a full featured video editor. Sony Acid Pro is a great looping program and a usable DAW.
 
jjjtttggg said:
I don't know anything about your sound card. Naturally it needs to be a decent one. If you bought it after the fact it probably is.
Click to expand...

I have the same card as the OP. It's a good one.
 
If you can afford a bit more, go for better monitors. I had the AV40s, they're not that clear, and dont respond to fine mixing. Listen to Yamaha hs-50s or Tannoy 501As, only another 150.00 bucks and much, much better. As was stated dont worry about the vocal effects, rather look into a mic pre, compressor which will sound better than your mixer. I recommend the JoeMeek VC3, no longer available new, but about 150.00 used on Ebay. Will work great with that mic and sound card.
 
Thanks for all of the advice.

I will be using the mixer - soundcard approach, but just a query - do I really need a mic pre, compresser (is that the same as a preamp?) as I always remember the mixer sounding OK, as it has an inbuilt preamp. I will probably have to go for the AV 40s though, as my budget is pretty tight!

I may have a copy of Sonar somewhere, but if I am unable to find it - is reaper completely free? As I saw pay for versions online.

Vocal effects - I have used effects such as delay, reverb, chorus etc on previous recordings but I always remember it being really fiddly and hard to get the desired sound, and never sounding how I wanted it to....I also want to get the autotune effect (not all the time but to give it that modern sound on some songs) which I would imagine is easier to obtain on an effects processer?

Midi in/out cable - I'm presuming this would be the connection of the keyboard (xiosynth) into the mixer, then to the soundcard? So I would need a midi cable to connect to the mixer, and then just use the normal connection I use to get the mixer to the soundcard? Sorry this may sound a bit confusing but let me know if you don't know what I mean!

One last thing, i'm thinking of using a different microphone - the Rode NT1A - would that be any better than the audio technica AT 2020?

Thanks in advance!
 
Reaper isn't "free". They just don't make you pay for it. Sounds wierd, huh? As long as you aren't going to use it for commercial purposes I think the idea is it is an indefinite trial period. Every time you open it (until you actually send them the $40 or whatever it is to get a license), you get a little window that sits there for 6 seconds reminding you that eventually you are supposed to pay for it... Unlike most trial versions, though, there no features disabled or missing whatsover. You just have to wait that 6 seconds and contemplate how great the product is and the fact that somebody worked really hard to make it great and man I probably should send them that 40 bucks, but hey that's 40 bucks, that's a couple of weeks of beer money, but I probably should pay cause I really do like the program, but do I have to send a check or do they take paypal, I wonder if their website is secure so I could use a credit card, I really should send them the money... Oh look at that the 6 seconds is up... I'll seriously think about it next time!!!

All kidding aside, although the above process tends to go on for a long time, if you really get into this and you use Reaper as your DAW, eventually you should pay. It's only $40 (or whatever it is now) for a great product. As a way to get started without laying out any cash upfront (on your DAW anyway) it's a great way to go!

J
 
fletch1988 said:
Thanks for all of the advice.

I will be using the mixer - soundcard approach, but just a query - do I really need a mic pre, compresser (is that the same as a preamp?) as I always remember the mixer sounding OK, as it has an inbuilt preamp. I will probably have to go for the AV 40s though, as my budget is pretty tight!
Click to expand...

If you are satisfied with the preamplifiers in your mixer then you don't need an external one. The Peavey likely has pretty okay preamps for a small cheap mixer, but sooner or later you may want to do better. A hardware compressor for tracking can be a good thing, but don't do it until you are very confident you know what you're doing.

fletch1988 said:
Vocal effects - I have used effects such as delay, reverb, chorus etc on previous recordings but I always remember it being really fiddly and hard to get the desired sound, and never sounding how I wanted it to....I also want to get the autotune effect (not all the time but to give it that modern sound on some songs) which I would imagine is easier to obtain on an effects processer?
Click to expand...

Autotune is available as a plugin, and I bet the vast majority of users (outside of live performances) are using it that way.

fletch1988 said:
Midi in/out cable - I'm presuming this would be the connection of the keyboard (xiosynth) into the mixer, then to the soundcard? So I would need a midi cable to connect to the mixer, and then just use the normal connection I use to get the mixer to the soundcard? Sorry this may sound a bit confusing but let me know if you don't know what I mean!
Click to expand...

MIDI is not audio, it merely transmits performance data (when a particular key pressed, how fast, when it's released etc.) which can't be handled by an audio mixer. Either connect the audio outputs of the keyboard/sound module to the mixer to record audio or get a USB/MIDI interface and record MIDI data.

fletch1988 said:
One last thing, i'm thinking of using a different microphone - the Rode NT1A - would that be any better than the audio technica AT 2020?
Click to expand...

I rarely categorize microphones by how good they are, but rather what they are good for. I'd rather have a good range of decent mics available to me than one super-fantastic one.
 
Midi is a complicated topic (well, not really once you understand it a little bit, but like a lot of things it can be really confusing at first). Yes, it is for controlling your keyboard (or a drum machine, or lots of other things), but it does not go through your mixer. It needs to get to your computer through an interface box, OR, OR, OR with a cheap little cable adapter that will connect it to the serial port on your sound card (if it has one, which i think it probably does). Then all you'll need is a driver, which you can find on the internet and download. The cable adapter has a connector at one end that attaches to the serial port jack on your sound card. Hanging off this connector are two short little stubs of cable that end with receptacles for attaching your midi cables, one for midi in (mine has a molded arrow on that one pointing to the serial port connector) and one for midi out (molded arrow point away from the serial port). Plug this adapter into your sound card, find and install the driver on the internet and bam, your sound card is a midi interface, plug your midi cables in and you're good to go. In your DAW you should be able to see it as an available source for recording, and an available output for midi streams. When you record midi, it doesn't record the sound. It records (on the midi in) cable what your fingers did on the keyboard... precisely when you hit each note, how hard you hit it, how long you held it, whether the sustain pedal was down, etc., etc. When you play back the track, the software will send (on the midi out) cable these exact same "events" back to the keyboard which will treat them exactly as it did when it was your fingers that were playing the notes. Really cool. The best part is if you make a mistake, you can edit the midi data and fix it, so when you play it back, it is as if you had played it right the first time. Very useful for a few mistakes here and there. Way too tedious if you can't really play the instrument.

You WILL still need to put the keyboard's audio output through the mixer for monitoring and so that when you want to create your final product you can get an audio file into your DAW for mixing. I do that by muting every other track except the midi recorded for part. Then you create an audio track, set the levels for the keyboards audio output and then record that part as an audio file coming through the mixer as if you were playing, (except you aren't. Your computer is, by playing back the midi data). Once that track is recorded, you'll want to mute the midi track (don't erase it or delete in case you want to change something later) and just listen to the recorded audio in your mixing. If there's a better way to do this, somebody chime in, cause I'd be interested to learn. This method does work though.

J
 
fletch1988 said:
I also want to get the autotune effect (not all the time but to give it that modern sound on some songs)....
Click to expand...

Why? :eek:

Seriously, it's been done to death. If you want a unique vocal effect, get a vocoder. You can get a much wider variety of effects from it by simply using different instruments or synth voices with it. AutoTune abuse is hopelessly cliched and thoroughly obnoxious.
 
Sorry to go on about the serial port to midi i/o adapter cable. Looks like your sound card may have come with one...

audiophile_2496.jpg


J
 
jjjtttggg said:
You WILL still need to put the keyboard's audio output through the mixer for monitoring and so that when you want to create your final product you can get an audio file into your DAW for mixing.
Click to expand...

Or use a VSTi?
 
Thanks for all of the responses, you've all been great! :-)

Lol @ the autotune comments - I won't necessarily be using it, I just thought it would be good to have it as it would be fun to give it a go!

I really want to get that 'modern' pop/rnb vocal sound in my recordings. That was why I was interested in a vocal effects processor. Do you think you can get just as good an effect with VST plugins as you would with a processor? How do you all mix your vocals and do effects etc? I have been looking at vocal effects plugins - they all look very good but are so expensive!!

Izotope Nectar looks brilliant but its 299 dollars or something like that!!!

Also want to get effects on electric guitar - would you recommend an effects processor or are there some good cheap VST plugins?

MIDI - I can see the benefits, but I will probably just be using the Novation Xiosynth and playing it directly into the soundcard (through the mixer) instead of using MIDI in.

Another thing - I really want that 'modern top 40' type sound in my songs - so I will need some good beats/drums. I'm after that Taio Cruz, Katy Perry, JLS type sound (not that any of these are particularly amazing artists but they do have very good beats and mixes on their recordings) wheres the best place for drum loops?

Thanks!
 
fletch1988 said:
I really want to get that 'modern' pop/rnb vocal sound in my recordings. That was why I was interested in a vocal effects processor. Do you think you can get just as good an effect with VST plugins as you would with a processor? How do you all mix your vocals and do effects etc? I have been looking at vocal effects plugins - they all look very good but are so expensive!!

Also want to get effects on electric guitar - would you recommend an effects processor or are there some good cheap VST plugins?
Click to expand...

Guitar and vocal recording are different things. Guitar effects are generally more blatant, completely altering the sound. Players typically decide how they want their instrument to sound and need to hear the effects while playing. Vocals usually get effects that enhance rather than transform how they sound. Singers normally don't benefit from having effects, aside from some reverb in some cases, on them when they track. So usually guitars are recorded with effects and vocal effects are done at mixdown.
 
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