Just a heads up to anyone who is looking into the UAD stuff...

[Beck]

And another thing! Trying to tell people or at least suggest they need an analog plugin along with real analog tape is just desperate! Not to mention asinine! Sounds like you’re trying to open a whole new market. LOL Now I’ve heard everything… I’m actually cracking up here seriously LOL. Well thanks for the laughs… really. It’s funny as hell. I don’t get these side-splitting, tears in my eyes laughs quite often enough.

 

[Bguzaldo]

C'mon man... If I told you that by clicking a button you could have the same thing that you have now and you'd never had to own a tape, demagnetize a head, replace a belt, replace a motor, find an out of stock part, etc... You would. Anyone would.

That's basically what you ARE telling us and no one agrees.

 

[chewbacaface]

Wow guy! Really? You're one of those message board elitists types. Good for you. You can "win" if that's what you need but this whole thing is laughable. Nice story about your "girlfriend from Niagara Falls who we wouldn't know". That's just hilarious. "Oh, I wouldn't dare divulge her name and ruin the sanctity of her lost virginity". Seriously, that's classic stuff. You wanna talk about people falling for things, huh? You should throw out a bigger net next time. I almost fell out of my chair. You don't want to buy it and would rather blast it. Good for you. Do I think you "auditioned" it based on your post? Nope. Any reasonable person would and could find positives and negatives in any tool. Your posts just reek of self congratulatory short-sidedness. So, you wanna know the reality. That's the reality. I've never found any decent engineer who could "audition" a tool and not find positives and negatives and more so potential uses for even the most low end gear. You might know analog tape machines in and out, and as you said, far better than I do. However, your attitude about "dolts" getting worked over by plugin companies shows and obvious lack of knowledge about the other side of the fence. Good to go. Great.

 

[chewbacaface]

And another thing! Trying to tell people or at least suggest they need an analog plugin along with real analog tape is just desperate! Not to mention asinine! Sounds like you’re trying to open a whole new market. LOL Now I’ve heard everything… I’m actually cracking up here seriously LOL. Well thanks for the laughs… really. It’s funny as hell. I don’t get these side-splitting, tears in my eyes laughs quite often enough.

You're stretching a bit with this one, buddy.

 

[chewbacaface]

That's basically what you ARE telling us and no one agrees.

Do you use a tuner pedal? Why not tune off of a tuning key or a pitch pipe? I'm sorry I don't agree with the "Jesus" of this board. I had no idea how many followers he had.

 

[chewbacaface]

I don't know why you assume that. Clearly you would rather do that but that doesn't mean that everyone else would. I would much much rather work with tape recorders and other analogue equipment than just 'press a button'. I'm not lying or being a luddite, I genuinely prefer working in this way and I'm sure many people would agree with me. Many would agree with you too, it's a matter of preference. I don't find recording in analogue to be a 'labour of love' or anything like that. I just don't find working with it a problem whatsoever.


Also, an abacus is faster than an electronic calculator once mastered.

Fair enough. I suppose anyone should use what they are comfortable with.

There are lots of things that simply can't be done on an abacus.

 

[chewbacaface]

Okay, last post on this and I will be done. I apologize for rubbing folks on here the wrong way. I am honestly a pretty positive guy and I like to hear everyone's opinion whether I agree with it or not. Beck, has been good to "dolts" on this board in helping to answer questions about decks, etc... and I appreciate that as much as anyone else. So, this is just an opinion and I'm sorry that it got somewhat personal.

On the issue of tape modeling plugins: I'm not suggesting, nor was I ever that anyone should buy these. I don't think anyone should expect to buy a plugin and have it sound just like their favorite deck and recording. That would be crazy and here is why. It is impossible to emulate a brand of deck because there is no such thing as two decks that sound alike. In the world of vintage analog, there are no two decks that exhibit identical sonic qualities. It's simply the nature of analog and those variable qualities (from a sonic perspective) are what make people love them. I don't know a ton about individual decks (as was so gracefully pointed out) but I do know this to be true from both research and experience. So, the idea of emulating a specific brand of deck is honestly sort of ridiculous. I get that and I agree. Now, that said, it doesn't mean that these plugins don't add authentic tape characteristics to the recording. After all, that is what they are really trying to achieve. Earlier in the thread, someone had mentioned being interested in the Fatso plugin. The Fatso hardware is not considered junk by any means and is essentially meant to do the same thing that these plugins try to do. They add harmonic distortion and transients relative to the observed frequencies from a single deck. Again, I don't work for them. I work in software for an insurance company, but I do understand how modeling algorithms work. I did read the literature and it explains very clearly what was modeled and how. So, does it sound like every Studer A800? No. Of course it doesn't because they don't sound the same amongst themselves. Does it make tracks warmer, richer, a little fuzzier. Yeah, in my opinion it does. So, my post was meant for someone reading the analog board who works in the same sort of mixed environment that I work in. I track in both, and I find these plugins to be very usable on my digitally recorded tracks. I don't use them on everything, but they can definitely add some nice tape-esque artifacts to certain things. So, take it for what it's worth.

I'm here to learn. I'm not here to bicker with people. I'm really good at certain aspects of recording and not as good at others. I've, been doing this for a long time but just like anyone else on here there are some areas that I would like to improve on. That's all. Take er easy.

 

[Beck]

You're stretching a bit with this one, buddy.

No really, I'm serious... I was laughing so hard it hurt. It was probably part sleep deprivation and the slap happy that comes with it, but I had the giggles man and I couldn't stop.

You're a good egg, chewbacaface, and I'm sure you mean well (well somewhat sure), but if you're willing to consider my advice, I say delve deeper into analog to discover and master all those things that people like me can do with it and that you would like to be able to accomplish yourself. IMO, you're doing what many people do... give up on analog prematurely before they have a chance to really grasp it. And that's what these forums are about... for people to learn the techniques and increase their knowledge of analog technology. The sound you want is all there in your analog machines, but you have to know how to get it out. You can use a plug, but you still don't have the character and nuances of analog tape. I had to learn it all once too. I wasn't born knowing it.

And keep in mind, the Analog Only forum was specifically created in the beginning for people to discuss real analog recording and analog equipment. You’re talking about a digital plugin here that has nothing to do with analog recording. There have been many analog sims before this one and there will be many yet to come… unless of course the collective IQ of the recording community suddenly and significantly increases. Each new plugin claims it's really got it this time and the others were missing something.

One of the latest analog simulating digital plugs is by Slate Digital. Quite a few people are taken in by the pseudo technical sales pitches for these things because the marketers write them with some basis of truth and plenty of big words to sound impressive. I'm not impressed, but these things aren't marketed to people like me because they know I know too much to be taken in. These products are aimed at neophytes. Some day when you can watch a sales pitch like the following and it makes you laugh your ass off because you know better, well, be happy and proud because you've arrived and you don't have to settle for these gimmicky plugs because you know how to use the real thing.



By the way, does anyone else notice how much this sounds like a boner pill commercial on late night TV?

 

[chewbacaface]

No really, I'm serious... I was laughing so hard it hurt. It was probably part sleep deprivation and the slap happy that comes with it, but I had the giggles man and I couldn't stop.

You're a good egg, chewbacaface, and I'm sure you mean well (well somewhat sure), but if you're willing to consider my advice, I say delve deeper into analog to discover and master all those things that people like me can do with it and that you would like to be able to accomplish yourself. IMO, you're doing what many people do... give up on analog prematurely before they have a chance to really grasp it. And that's what these forums are about... for people to learn the techniques and increase their knowledge of analog technology. The sound you want is all there in your analog machines, but you have to know how to get it out. You can use a plug, but you still don't have the character and nuances of analog tape. I had to learn it all once too. I wasn't born knowing it.

And keep in mind, the Analog Only forum was specifically created in the beginning for people to discuss real analog recording and analog equipment. You’re talking about a digital plugin here that has nothing to do with analog recording. There have been many analog sims before this one and there will be many yet to come… unless of course the collective IQ of the recording community suddenly and significantly increases. Each new plugin claims it's really got it this time and the others were missing something.

One of the latest analog simulating digital plugs is by Slate Digital. Quite a few people are taken in by the pseudo technical sales pitches for these things because the marketers write them with some basis of truth and plenty of big words to sound impressive. I'm not impressed, but these things aren't marketed to people like me because they know I know too much to be taken in. These products are aimed at neophytes. Some day when you can watch a sales pitch like the following and it makes you laugh your ass off because you know better, well, be happy and proud because you've arrived and you don't have to settle for these gimmicky plugs because you know how to use the real thing.



By the way, does anyone else notice how much this sounds like a boner pill commercial on late night TV?

That guy is pretty hilarious. He doesn't help his cause by having a Jersey Shore voice. I will fully admit to being somewhat glamored by the big names behind the UAD stuff. I guess what got me was that it wasn't one guy, it was basically the whole lot of guys who had put out some of my favorite records over the past 30 years. So, I gave the hardware/software a shot. It may simply be infomercial whoring as you suggest. Still, I'd say even if the tape emulations weren't your bag, the other plugins do just as well in the digital world in terms of how they've been reviewed and how they sound to me. Obviously, I use the tape plugs a fair bit but I use the EQs, , reverbs, comps and limiters a lot more just because there is more room for that stuff on every recording. Honestly, I have never tried the majority of it in the real world because it is emulations of some really high end gear. So, I've tried a handful of it in studios I've recorded in but only owned the hardware version of a couple of the lower end of these (RE201, dbx160, LA2A). I don't have a plate. I have never recorded with a plate, but their plate reverb sounds really good. I have no clue if it is authentic sounding but it definitely sounds better than my other reverb plugs. I like all of the UAD stuff that I've tried in general. I think I might buy a 710 today. We'll see how bad my wallet is aching. But, this is an analog board and was probably the wrong place to post all of this to begin with. Oh well, live and learn.

 

[Bguzaldo]

Do you use a tuner pedal? Why not tune off of a tuning key or a pitch pipe? I'm sorry I don't agree with the "Jesus" of this board. I had no idea how many followers he had.

Sometimes.

 

[leddy]

One of the latest analog simulating digital plugs is by Slate Digital.

Well...

Curiosity got the best of me and I decided to try this thing. I didn't have an Ilok so I have to wait for that to arrive before I can offer my opinion on it.

I have projects that are just not worth putting wear on the heads of my decks. It is for those that I will give this a try. I chose Slate based on another marketing video more about the technical end of it. Don't have a link handy, but it's easy to find. That, and I only have a UAD1 card. I don't really want to buy a UAD2, and then pay for a plug I may hate. This was a much cheaper route.

I'll report back in a few days and offer my humble $.02.

 

[Beck]

Well...

Curiosity got the best of me and I decided to try this thing. I didn't have an Ilok so I have to wait for that to arrive before I can offer my opinion on it.

I have projects that are just not worth putting wear on the heads of my decks. It is for those that I will give this a try. I chose Slate based on another marketing video more about the technical end of it. Don't have a link handy, but it's easy to find. That, and I only have a UAD1 card. I don't really want to buy a UAD2, and then pay for a plug I may hate. This was a much cheaper route.

I'll report back in a few days and offer my humble $.02.

Good luck!

I get plenty curious, but I try new stuff out at a local music store to confirm what I can already guess. Doesn't cost me anything but the gas to drive there... which by the way is almost getting too much to drive there. I might just have to stay home and be right without confirmation.

 

[leddy]

Installed and running.

Need to spend more time with it, so I don't want to spout off things I may change my mind on - but it does do some pleasing things to the audio. The high end softens up a little, the head bump is nice - not overdone. I think real tape might give you a little better flattering effect on the transients. So it seems so far.

Should do what I need - sound like tape on projects I don't want to put wear and tear on my machines for.

 

[sam humans]

We all know that plugins and tape machines are tools to be used to make recordings. Yes, a good engineer uses whatever tools are at his/her disposal. All true. Recording is equal parts art and science and a beautiful thing when done right, regardless of medium. Ah-hem...

UAD-1's are going to be dirt cheap 'cause UA is moving to a rev for future plugs that will not allow the UAD-1. (All the stuff that used to run on '1 still will, but not with/next to UAD-2's in the same system.

A good tape machine, however, was not designed around this idea of planned obsolescence. They were, for the most part, designed to run for a long, long time. Tape machines were designed to be maintained, calibrated, upgraded, lubricated and on and on. There's no tricks with the Operating System. No new version that requires you to spend more to stay in the operational loop. Sure, new tech came along that pushed tape into more and more complex territory, but even then, in the end, tape machines are mechanical in nature and thus designed, by necessity, to be kept alive.

Personally, I would be much more inclined to spend my hard earned money on plugins If I knew that next time I upgraded my OS they would all still work with the same hardware on the same computer.

In that sense the analog/digital debate is one about a sustainable society vs a disposable society. How has it become normal to have to spend $3000 on a program that, because of the inexorable march of technology, you will likely need to upgrade from in 5 years, and be absolutely unable to use in 10 years? My Ampex 440 was built in the 1970s. It still sounds good. I've put a few hundred into bringing it up to stuff, and will likely spend a few hundred a year keeping it maintained. Yes it sometimes brakes when I wish it would work. Yes it's finicky at times. But computers crash and hard drives fail so it's apples to apples on that score.

In other words, Analog wins the green prize. Your computer, not so much.

 

[leddy]

^^

I could agree with this 100%, except I have to add there is frustration with finding parts sometimes, depending on your deck of course.

I use a Nagra IV-S for 2-track duties, and I can sleep well for now knowing plenty of parts and service are available, and I can ship it in to be fixed rather than having a tech come to me. I had a chance to buy a really nice Ampex 440 locally for $500. I'm kicking myself for not, but it would be a lot of work compared to the Nagra. I'm sure the Ampex can sound a lot more like rock and roll than the Nagra though...

 

[mixsit]

...In other words, Analog wins the green prize. Your computer, not so much.

Ah, all well and true what you say.

But that kind’a talk's also like taking food out the mouths of e-waste worker bees the world over now!
Planned obsolescence/folly/short sighted’?
Tens of trillions + in debt, Washington, Euro' all about to drive us off the cliff “La de da ..
‘Everybody sing’..
‘Green
http://www.paulchefurka.ca/World Population and Oil.JPG
Population, the elephant in the room
That’d be about what? < 1.5 children/per?
Philosophically that is..

 

[TASCAM MAN]

We all know that plugins and tape machines are tools to be used to make recordings. Yes, a good engineer uses whatever tools are at his/her disposal. All true. Recording is equal parts art and science and a beautiful thing when done right, regardless of medium. Ah-hem...



A good tape machine, however, was not designed around this idea of planned obsolescence. They were, for the most part, designed to run for a long, long time. Tape machines were designed to be maintained, calibrated, upgraded, lubricated and on and on. There's no tricks with the Operating System. No new version that requires you to spend more to stay in the operational loop. Sure, new tech came along that pushed tape into more and more complex territory, but even then, in the end, tape machines are mechanical in nature and thus designed, by necessity, to be kept alive.

Personally, I would be much more inclined to spend my hard earned money on plugins If I knew that next time I upgraded my OS they would all still work with the same hardware on the same computer.

In that sense the analog/digital debate is one about a sustainable society vs a disposable society. How has it become normal to have to spend $3000 on a program that, because of the inexorable march of technology, you will likely need to upgrade from in 5 years, and be absolutely unable to use in 10 years? My Ampex 440 was built in the 1970s. It still sounds good. I've put a few hundred into bringing it up to stuff, and will likely spend a few hundred a year keeping it maintained. Yes it sometimes brakes when I wish it would work. Yes it's finicky at times. But computers crash and hard drives fail so it's apples to apples on that score.

In other words, Analog wins the green prize. Your computer, not so much.

BEST ONE YET !!!

 

[Lt. Bob]

Ok And chewbacaface, all you've really done from your first post is tell us you can't figure out analog. .

well, to be fair he also told us that he's willing to lie to his clients.