Is this the final solution to guitar intonation problems?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Armistice
  • Start date Start date
I'll think I'll tear the neck off my '63 Gretsch Country Gent and go for it.
 
I thought Line 6 was the solution to all of our problems.

Or just playing keyboards instead.

Or bongos.

:D
 
The Earvana nut seems to be popular with many. Low cost and fairly easy to install.

Ed
 
Looks interesting. I'm getting an Earvana nut fitted to my G&L Tribute next week, hopefully that will fix the intonation problems I'm having with it.
 
Armistice said:
http://www.fretwave.com/

The greatest contribution Australia has made to guitar playing since Angus Young, perhaps???

What do you think?
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Sure thing, if you only ever want to play in the key of D#minor (or what ever key they chose).

It is useless if you want to play in more than one key, however.







Ed Dixon said:
The Earvana nut seems to be popular with many. Low cost and fairly easy to install.

Ed
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And it would be a rip off at 1/0th the price.

We've installed a few. They are a total waste of time and money.




The solution to intonation problems is to get and keep your guitar well setup and intonated, and to learn how to tune it. I tune by ear, which is not only the best method, but the cheapest.


If people hadn't decided to rely on electronic tuners (which NEVER get your guitar in tune), none of these things would even exist.


For those who can't hear that well on stage, spend the time to get your guitar in tune, and then learn how far off from theoretical each string needs to be on your tuner, and do it that way.


In the end, all of the various "inventions" trying to solve a guitars tuning problems are, as my friend Frank Ford would say, solutions without a problem.



Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Light said:
The solution to intonation problems is to get and keep your guitar well setup and intonated, and to learn how to tune it. I tune by ear, which is not only the best method, but the cheapest.
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Unfortunately that is untrue. Intonation can only do one thing, set the string length from nut to bridge (assuming that nut and bridge height have also been adjusted). Some guitars cannot be tuned completely as the 12th fret notes will be in tune, but other notes out of tune. Other factors like string gauge, nut height and user playing style also affect tuning.

The Earvana nut attempts to compensate for some of these. A good electronic visual tuner can clearly show where on the fret board notes are in turn, sharp or flat. Some have found that the Earvana nut can help this issue for some. As I have not yet tried one, I can't yet speak from experience, but those who have made the change seem to like the result.

For example, my guitar shows correct tune for the third string at the 12th fret. This is the case for both harmonic note there as well as freted note. The open string is also in tune. However A played on the third string is sharp. It shows this way on multiple tuners as well as to the ear.

Ed
 
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Although I have no where near the knowledge of Light, I think its just basic logic that this wont work. It just doesnt make sense to have a fret bent backwards underneath a string while the next fret up is straight for that string. If there was some sort of pattern that had to do with the shape of the intonated bridge (shorter for the higher strings) then I could see some thought behind that, this just looks like they randomly bent frets and passed them off to idiots (those who wouldnt consider the messed up sound of a bend using that system). As for the earvana nut, I don't see how it will affect tuning in anything other than the open strings, because once you fret the note the only thing that matters is the distance from that fret to the bridge. The only system I've seen that makes sense is the fanned fret system., But I think if you're really concerned with playing perfectly in tune you might want to take up the keyboard.
 
Earvana nut

Ed Dixon said:
There is some more info on Earvana located here:

http://www.vettaville.com/earvana-install.htm

Among other things, they show some before and after measurements using a Peterson Strobe Tuner.

Ed
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I recently purchased an ESP with the Earvana nut. It is the most in tune, properly intonated guitar I have ever owned and I have owned many.

I like it so much I don't think I would consider purchasing another guitar that did not have one.
 
The fretwave thing does seem a bit strange.

The Earvana approach is a little easier to understand. It claims to affect mostly chords played with open strings, usually in the first 5 frets range. Things like E, C, D, A, etc.

Consider the B string for example. Normal intonation sets the bridge so that the B note played at the 12th fret is on pitch. It will be an octive higher than the open B string. However when one plays the note at the 2nd fret on the B string, it may be out of pitch.

The Earvana nut does the equivalent of changing the fret spacing for the first few frets, which in turn will affect the played pitch. There is a good picture of one here:

http://www.earvana.com/products_nuts_oem.html

Notice that the nut position for the B string is back a bit from others like the G string.

I will be installing a Earvana nut in the next week and I'll post my impressions here for the before and after. I have a pretty good ear, as well as about 4 different electronic/digital tuning aids. Maybe it will be an improvement, maybe it won’t. Tests with tuners and playing are the bottom line on whether it helps.

Ed
 
Those doodads are pretty pricey. What if I just take a hammer and chisel and bend the frets that are already on my Country Gent?
 
It might be easier to bend your ears than the frets.

The Earvana costs $30 shipped.

Ed
 
Light said:
I tune by ear, which is not only the best method, but the cheapest.


If people hadn't decided to rely on electronic tuners (which NEVER get your guitar in tune), none of these things would even exist.


For those who can't hear that well on stage, spend the time to get your guitar in tune, and then learn how far off from theoretical each string needs to be on your tuner, and do it that way.
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Don't gig much do you?
If you did, you'd know that the electronic tuner can be a massive lifesaver.

I played for years without one - it's not as though I can't tune by ear.
Try doing it in a drum solo with a broken string though.
It's the best pedal I own frankly.

I'm going to hug my TU-2 when I get home :)
 
Our typical gig is 4 hours in 4 50 minutes sets. About half the jobs are outdoors. I have to tune multiple times during the initial sets as things change with outdoor temperature.

Most tuning is done between songs while someone else is making an announcement/comment/joke/introduction. You want no sound during this time. About the only option one has is a connected digital tuner with display and a mute option.

Ed
 
Ed Dixon said:
For example, my guitar shows correct tune for the third string at the 12th fret. This is the case for both harmonic note there as well as freted note. The open string is also in tune. However A played on the third string is sharp. It shows this way on multiple tuners as well as to the ear.

Ed
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Of course it is!!!! That is the way it will sound GOOD for some chords.

Other than the open A string on my guitar, when I tune almost none of the notes are "legally" perfect, but it SOUNDS right. I really don't care what an electronic tunner says, I care if the chords sound in tune or not.

And I DO have experience with the Earvanna nut, and it is a rip off. It is certainly true that the distance from the nut to the first fret needs to be modified from the theoretical distance given by the rule of 18 (well, the rule of 17.835, or the rule of 17.817 - in actuality it is the reciprocal or the inverse of the reciprocal of the constant, with the constant being the twelgth root of two). This is a well established and know thing. The thing is, builders have always done this just as a part of how we build. I don't know anyone who doesn't. So don't worry about it.

And you will note that I did not just say you had to keep your guitar intonated, but SET UP and intonated. With a proper set up, you can get the intonation so damn good that you can play in tune, if you just take the time to ACTUALLY get your guitar IN TUNE, as opposed to taking your tuning advise from a bunch of buricrates in Washington DC who tell you that A = 440 Hz and C = 329.4 (or what ever it is), etc.

I guess this is all a long winded way of saying, the problem is not the nut, it is electronic tuners.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
ibanezrocks said:
The only system I've seen that makes sense is the fanned fret system., But I think if you're really concerned with playing perfectly in tune you might want to take up the keyboard.
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The Novax Fanned fret thing, though cool, is not an intonation thing. It is a ergonomic thing, and a sound thing. It makes your hand position for many chords, particularly barre chords, much more natural. It also give the lower pitch strings a longer length, which means it they have a higher tension for a given pitch, which gives them a more articulate sound.

I have made one guitar with a fanned fret fingerboard, and it is shocking to me how much I DON'T notice it when I am playing. It is pretty damn cool.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Codmate said:
Don't gig much do you?
If you did, you'd know that the electronic tuner can be a massive lifesaver.

I played for years without one - it's not as though I can't tune by ear.
Try doing it in a drum solo with a broken string though.
It's the best pedal I own frankly.

I'm going to hug my TU-2 when I get home :)
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I can't much, anymore. But when I did, I always tuned by ear. You just need to learn how.

Of course, I almost always played solo, and the way I play rarely throws my guitars out of tune (part of that is also having the best guitar possible, and having it set up properly).

But you will also notice, I said to learn WHERE on your tuner things landed so that you could use a tuner on stage.



Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Light said:
Of course it is!!!! That is the way it will sound GOOD for some chords.I guess this is all a long winded way of saying, the problem is not the nut, it is electronic tuners.
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Sorry, but that is incorrect. Perhaps you missed the part where I said it sounded out of tune, and that all tuners also showed it as out of tune. My ears of good enough to recognize out of tune notes.

Ed
 
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