Is the quality of an expensive external mic pre compromised by a consumer A/I?

[famous beagle]

In other words, if I plug a mic into a nice pre by Neve, API, etc. and then run from there into the line input of a $250 A/I, am I not getting the full benefit of the mic pre?

If not, what do people do to get the full benefit?

Thanks

 

[Steenamaroo]

What you're plugging into is a converter, unless you've a cheap interface with a combo input (pad before mic pre) in which case there's a little more stuff in the path that doesn't need to be there.

Ideally, though, it's the converter you're worried about, and that's what'll lie behind a 'straight-up' line input.
I don't have enough experience with various converters to tell you about the differences, but they exist and people spend thousands of £/$ for top notch converters to do their nice Neve/Api/Whatever justice.

I don't think I'd get too much flack for suggesting that it's probably the least important part of the path, on the way in anyway.
If you dropped thousands of your currency on a mic and preamp and the room, your motu converters aren't likely to destroy the sound or anything.

I hope that's useful.

 

[ido1957]

I use Sputnik-> LA610 -> Lexicon U42S.
I don't know if it's a completely clean pass through but I can hear all the nuances of my preamp when I fiddle with the buttons and record.

 

[rob aylestone]

Most of the esoteric and sought after mic preamps distort what goes through in a manner some find agreeable - the output, if stuffed into any decent transparent pre-amp in the D/A will still have that distortion of what came out of the mic - at worst, there will be a bit more noise. Most of the popular interfaces, which are of course pre-amps too, and the line input on most is just padded down to allow line in at the correct level.

If your main interface sounds clean and pleasant with a mic, then it will still do this for you when you connect the nicely distorted preamp.

I don't quite understand why somebody doesn't build the D to A circuits into the 'posh' pre-amp, and we could stop feeding pre-amp into pre-amp, which is never going to be 'the best'.

 

[famous beagle]

Most of the esoteric and sought after mic preamps distort what goes through in a manner some find agreeable - the output, if stuffed into any decent transparent pre-amp in the D/A will still have that distortion of what came out of the mic - at worst, there will be a bit more noise. Most of the popular interfaces, which are of course pre-amps too, and the line input on most is just padded down to allow line in at the correct level.

If your main interface sounds clean and pleasant with a mic, then it will still do this for you when you connect the nicely distorted preamp.

I don't quite understand why somebody doesn't build the D to A circuits into the 'posh' pre-amp, and we could stop feeding pre-amp into pre-amp, which is never going to be 'the best'.

You mean A to D, right?

 

[DM60]

What you're plugging into is a converter, unless you've a cheap interface with a combo input (pad before mic pre) in which case there's a little more stuff in the path that doesn't need to be there.

Ideally, though, it's the converter you're worried about, and that's what'll lie behind a 'straight-up' line input.
I don't have enough experience with various converters to tell you about the differences, but they exist and people spend thousands of £/$ for top notch converters to do their nice Neve/Api/Whatever justice.

I don't think I'd get too much flack for suggesting that it's probably the least important part of the path, on the way in anyway.
If you dropped thousands of your currency on a mic and preamp and the room, your motu converters aren't likely to destroy the sound or anything.

I hope that's useful.

I don't want to agree with Steen here, but I agree with Steen here.

I haven't really dug into the technology, why converter A is better than B, but unless there is some awesome hardware magic going on (other than the speed and CPU load of the conversion, which is where I think there could be a difference), once you get to the converter, the difference is subtle at best.

 

[Steenamaroo]

Most of the popular interfaces, which are of course pre-amps too, and the line input on most is just padded down to allow line in at the correct level.

This may be true of the cheap portable interfaces.
It's not true of any of the rack sized motu, tascam, rme, etc interfaces I've come across.
Even some of the mobile ones still have a pair of line inputs (or more) round the back. It's one of the reasons I got the fire studio mobile as a second interface.
If your only line input is as part of a combo jack/xlr on a small interface, the chances are the pad idea is true.

I don't quite understand why somebody doesn't build the D to A circuits into the 'posh' pre-amp, and we could stop feeding pre-amp into pre-amp, which is never going to be 'the best'.

I thought this was a common enough thing?
I mean, I'm very happy with my preamps and never really shop for new ones but, aren't focusrite and people like that fitting A/D cards to their preamps?
As above, though, plenty of interfaces have a row of direct line-ins round the back.

I don't want to agree with Steen here, but I agree with Steen here.

Yeah, I get that a lot!

 

[jimmys69]

I believe there is a difference between what us kids in recording do with our lower end gear, and what the big (million dollar) studios achieve.

I would say that every step in the audio chain, whether it be room, mic, preamp, converter or whatever, will detract or add to the final sound to some degree. What that percentage is is really impossible to say.

I use a NEVE clone preamp and I must say that it does not immediately offer that much of an improvement over the preamps in my interface other than it's eq or gain abilities. But I hear others talk about when running through such a preamp makes a big difference when multiple tracks are involved. The combination of quality preamp recorded tracks/or lower quality. Assuming the buildup of the slight distortion or whatever from low end preamps or conversion becomes an issue? IDK.

Unfortunately I cannot afford $1500 per channel so I can't give a personal yay or nay as to whether that is true. Plus I have only $1800 invested in my interfaces. Maybe high end converters would make a difference? Not likely for the level that I am recording at.

I do know what I hear from a studio with high end converters, preamps, room treatment and mics has much advantage to my lowly setup. Which isn't cheap by any means. Upper 30's in my setup.

I would say that a great preamp will likely give you 'something' more. Whether it will make it awesome or not? Not likely but worth the expense to step up one link of the chain.

 

[miroslav]

I believe there is a difference between what us kids in recording do with our lower end gear, and what the big (million dollar) studios achieve.

I would say that every step in the audio chain, whether it be room, mic, preamp, converter or whatever, will detract or add to the final sound to some degree. What that percentage is is really impossible to say.

Yup....

The differences can be subtle like you said, and most of those million dollar studio pros would also say the same thing, and that you pay a lot to gain 5%-10% in quality....BUT...when you consider that for all the gear in entire audio chains....those 5%-10% increases can add up and that's how the million dollar studios can consistently put out quality audio (music tastes aside).

At the home rec level...we can sometimes hit on a really great audio chain combination that is not very expensive, but it's not always the case across the board, all the time....IOW, it can be pot luck...and also highly dependent on the users.
The pros simply invest a lot of money in order to take the gear quality out of the equation...or maybe better said, to make sure the quality is never going to be in question.

So...to answer the OP....yes, the converter can make a difference, but it will be subtle, especially if you are using a straight converter VS some of the all-in-one boxes which can affect the signal a bit more.
So the quality of the preamp will get preserved for the most part.....of course, everything else in the chain will also be in play too.

 

[jimmys69]

Yup....

The differences can be subtle like you said, and most of those million dollar studio pros would also say the same thing, and that you pay a lot to gain 5%-10% in quality....BUT...when you consider that for all the gear in entire audio chains....those 5%-10% increases can add up and that's how the million dollar studios can consistently put out quality audio (music tastes aside).

At the home rec level...we can sometimes hit on a really great audio chain combination that is not very expensive, but it's not always the case across the board, all the time....IOW, it can be pot luck...and also highly dependent on the users.
The pros simply invest a lot of money in order to take the gear quality out of the equation...or maybe better said, to make sure the quality is never going to be in question.

So...to answer the OP....yes, the converter can make a difference, but it will be subtle, especially if you are using a straight converter VS some of the all-in-one boxes which can affect the signal a bit more.
So the quality of the preamp will get preserved for the most part.....of course, everything else in the chain will also be in play too.

Better said than I did.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

This may be true of the cheap portable interfaces.
It's not true of any of the rack sized motu, tascam, rme, etc interfaces I've come across.
Even some of the mobile ones still have a pair of line inputs (or more) round the back. It's one of the reasons I got the fire studio mobile as a second interface.
If your only line input is as part of a combo jack/xlr on a small interface, the chances are the pad idea is true.

In my experience the line inputs on many devices are padded down and fed to the same preamplifier as the mic input, even if they are not on a combo connector. The Tascam M-2600 recording console does this, as does the Fireface 800 interface, to name just two. It appears the Studiolive also does this, so it wouldn't surprise me if the Firestudio follows suit.

 

[Steenamaroo]

In my experience the line inputs on many devices are padded down and fed to the same preamplifier as the mic input, even if they are not on a combo connector. The Tascam M-2600 recording console does this, as does the Fireface 800 interface, to name just two. It appears the Studiolive also does this, so it wouldn't surprise me if the Firestudio follows suit.

Alright, I'll rephrase it....
If any of your inputs have mic and line options, the chances are the pad idea is happening on those channels.

Looking back, Rob seemed to be talking specifically about input channels with preamps so my mistake there.

The examples I gave all have additional input channels that are line only. Those should be direct to converter.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

Alright, I'll rephrase it....
If any of your inputs have mic and line options, the chances are the pad idea is happening on those channels.

Looking back, Rob seemed to be talking specifically about input channels with preamps so my mistake there.

The examples I gave all have additional input channels that are line only. Those should be direct to converter.

Yep, if it's a dedicated line input channel, especially one with no gain control, it probably is a more direct path to the converter.

That said, most decent preamps are pretty neutral so they should largely retain the character of an external pre with "character".