Is studio time worth it in my case?

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kratos

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Basically i plan to do a 5-10 debut album.
Know one knows about me.
Im starting from rock bottom.
0 fans. 0 sales. 0 everything.

I have two options:

1) Go to a recording studio: Ive had the initial meetings, showed my samples, and the producer says he has many contacts in the music industry with big and indie labels and says he will pass on my music if its any good.
The catch: its $2000 to record a 4 track album over 4 days. Plus i dont have this amount of money and my parents would have to fund it and theyll ask questions. Yh im 17 and live with parents since im in school obviously.

2) I could do all the recordings, mixing, mastering myself. I could get an SE reflexion and condenser mic like rode and record my album in my room which is acceptable in acoustic environments. All this would cost like $300 max. In this way i can record a 10 track album as i already have the DAW and instrumentals recorded.
The catch: Im a noob at mixing and mastering vocals in the track.

So what should i do?
Record the album by myself or spend huge amounts of money to record a pro album by a pro producer whos only free in September this year? So i have to wait like 2 months just to record a 4 track album...

It is a huge risk financially as technically i will be left with no money if i go to recording studio and plus if my parents invest in it and dont get a return on it im kinda screwed. So its either going to be a hit or a miss with option 1. With option 2 im quite safe financially.

Plus i have to promote everything by myself anyway.
 
I'd have to hear your music to be sure but I'm gonna guess that you probably ought to not spend 2grand on this if your parents are gonna expect a return on that investment because there's a VERY good chance that they'll get almost none of it back.
First recording ..... fairly young ..... only a 4 track EP ........ doesn't seem likely to me you're gonna sell 2k worth or even 200 worth.
There's plenty of guys right here at HR that have done quite good albums and have most of them sitting forlornly in boxes unsold.

But ...... as I said ..... I'd have to hear what you're planning to record before having a definitive opinion.
 
I agree. I'm fairly young. 20. And I totally see where you are coming from. And I've talked to big studio guys in my area, that you pay big bucks, and in return they promote you. Which for some bands I know, it has helped a lot. But not close to enough money to pay that person off. Not close at all.

I say do it on your own for now. Especially if it's just you, which means easier to record. Assuming you won't be doing drums. You can get a pretty decent set up for pretty cheap, and a lot of people here can help you with your mix. And there's a ton of info here to get you started.


So tell us what instruments you are wanting to record, and we can point you in the right direction for equipment.
 
And also, they are probably cheaper studios in your area. Look around. Probably not as good of quality, but you should be able to do a cd for $300. I personally would charge $50 a song if no drums were involved. $100 max, still no drums. And although I'm not the best studio around, my price to product ratio is pretty good. And in sure there's people like that around you.
 
AMcB said:
And also, they are probably cheaper studios in your area. Look around. Probably not as good of quality, but you should be able to do a cd for $300. I personally would charge $50 a song if no drums were involved. $100 max, still no drums. And although I'm not the best studio around, my price to product ratio is pretty good. And in sure there's people like that around you.
Click to expand...

^^^^^ this ^^^^^
 
Yeah man, honestly, there's no reason to go and blow $2000 on a recording that you're probably not going to get reimbursed for in the long run anyway. I've just started dabbling in home recording, and I can tell you that not only will it be more financially possible (right now), but it's a hell of a lot more fulfilling when you finish recording, mixing, and mastering a song that you just put all of your time and effort into.

I say go ahead and dive right into this. There are a ton of people here who are more than willing to help, so I'd say go out and start recording! :D
 
AMcB said:
I agree. I'm fairly young. 20. And I totally see where you are coming from. And I've talked to big studio guys in my area, that you pay big bucks, and in return they promote you. Which for some bands I know, it has helped a lot. But not close to enough money to pay that person off. Not close at all.

I say do it on your own for now. Especially if it's just you, which means easier to record. Assuming you won't be doing drums. You can get a pretty decent set up for pretty cheap, and a lot of people here can help you with your mix. And there's a ton of info here to get you started.


So tell us what instruments you are wanting to record, and we can point you in the right direction for equipment.
Click to expand...

The thing is 100% of my instruments are vsts. I know how to play piano, drums and guitar; its just that i cant record them very well and plus i would need to spend more $$$ to buy equipment.
Ive made my backing instrumentals. Its eqed, mixed okish. Im kinda stuck in the mastering bit as i cant seem to get the song to play at commercial dB everytime i burn it to mp3 128kps
Plus theres the hassle of recording vocals. Im a one man person so i have to click record and run to the next room where the mic is set up. You can imagine what happens if i mess up my lyrics while recording! So yh it takes me like 6 -7 hours just to record chorus, and 1 verse mainly and still it sounds pretty shit since i cant place it in my mix properly. So im thinking of not recording vocals at all and just skip to producing tracks since thats where im good at.
Shame i had such good lyrics but due to poor equipment i cant record them properly no matter how well i reherse.
I dont have any samples yet sorry.
 
AMcB said:
And also, they are probably cheaper studios in your area. Look around. Probably not as good of quality, but you should be able to do a cd for $300. I personally would charge $50 a song if no drums were involved. $100 max, still no drums. And although I'm not the best studio around, my price to product ratio is pretty good. And in sure there's people like that around you.
Click to expand...

There are none unfortunately ive checked. Most studios around a 10 km radius do like $50 - $100 dollars from my area.
Plus the dude just because he has contacts in the industry charges $65 an hour. His studio is the size of a small bathroom but the shit that comes out is amazing.
 
If you will have to handle your own promotion, why not ask the parents for the $2000 loan and use it for decent equipment to record your material.

You'd probably have just as good of a chance at selling your stuff yourself as if it was recorded at the pro place. If it sounds half way decent at all, and you have good material, there's no reason why you can't do this yourself.

Additionally, you won't have to pay for the studio time for your follow up project as you already have all of the equipment.

Make more dollars sense to me. This is after all Home Recording.
 
might be worth posting up a list of what you already have, hardware wise.

unless you're reasonably well set up already, i think you might need more than just a rode and a reflection filter. tell us what you've got..


my personal opinion is.. your first cd will not sound the way you want it to sound.

it comes down to what YOU want.

if you want a good cd and that's it? shop around for a cheaper studio.( i know you said there aren't any, but what about local college studios? or students? what about hobbyists like a lot of the guys on here? they mite not have big adverts all over the place, but they're out there!!)

if you want a good cd,(perhaps not first time around), and a learning curve, then home recording is for you.
 
Hey Steenamaroo....did you just get my PM to you? I may have goofed it up.






:cool:
 
Ever the contrarian, here...

Stop. You are going about this all wrong- putting the cart before the horse.

kratos said:
Know one knows about me.
Im starting from rock bottom.
0 fans. 0 sales. 0 everything.
Click to expand...

Who's gonna BUY those CD's you record and produce? If you believe your stuff is good enough to record, get out there and play it for people. Open mic's, Monday and Tuesday afternoons (when the clubs are the slowest), eateries, even street corners and subway stops if that's legal in your town. Talk to the people who listen, ask them what they think. BUILD A FAN BASE FIRST. Build a YouTube page. When they start asking, "Do you have a CD?" THAT'S when you answer the questions you asked. If you get lucky, you might even finance at least part of the cost with pre-sales. If you can go to your folks with deposits for, say, 50 CD's (or however many- even 20 would be good) and tell them "This is 50 CD's, times $10 each- that's $500 I have orders for," your parents will be much happier loaning you the money.
 
kratos said:
Know one knows about me.
Im starting from rock bottom.
0 fans. 0 sales. 0 everything.
Click to expand...
Why not wait and build a fan base first? Play some open mic. Pull together some other guys and form a band. Get a buzz going. Then once you have people willing to buy your album, make the album. It will reduce the risk of not recouping your costs.

So what should i do?
Record the album by myself or spend huge amounts of money to record a pro album by a pro producer whos only free in September this year? So i have to wait like 2 months just to record a 4 track album...
Click to expand...
A two month wait is nothing. It takes most people 5-10 years to really learn how to record and mix. If you do it yourself, don't expect pro results in under 2 months.

kratos said:
Ive made my backing instrumentals. Its eqed, mixed okish. Im kinda stuck in the mastering bit as i cant seem to get the song to play at commercial dB everytime i burn it to mp3 128kps
Click to expand...
First of all, don't master to MP3. Master to wav and create the MP3 from that wav. Second, do not try to get commercial volume. The big guys are wrong for doing it. The small guys are wrong for trying to follow. There is zero sonic, emotional, or visceral benefit and a whole mess of sonic damage.

Anyway, I would recommend hitting a studio. It does not sound like your main goal is to become a recording engineer. If you want to put the majority of your energy into writing and musicianship, hire somebody else to record you. Learning how to record will take up most of your time if you go at it seriously, and it will be years until you get where you want to be.

So... wait, save money in some isolated account you won't be tempted to touch, get out there and build fans, build songs, polish what you got, then hit the studio when you can afford it and you have fans willing to buy the product.
 
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Go to the closest studios and offer your time for free helping out doing what ever, to learn as you go and possibly get some free recording time in their off time.

It can't hurt to try.:D





:cool:
 
0 fans. 0 sales. 0 everything
Click to expand...

This should be something you seriously think about before you do anything else or drop a single cent into a project. Especially if you are considering borrowing and repaying money to finance the recording. (hopefully your parents aren't the kneecapping, finger breaking types :D )

How will people find out about your album, why will they want to buy, what connection do they have to you vs anyone else.

and the producer says he has many contacts in the music industry with big and indie labels and says he will pass on my music if its any good
Click to expand...

I'm sure the studio guy says he has music industry connections and maybe he does, but I'm also sure he says that to everyone he talks to, to get them to pay him for studio time vs anyone elses studio. How much time and effort realistically do you believe he will put into selling you to a music industry that is short on sales and overwhelmed with people who want to become an overnight sensation because they believe they have "IT". A&R guys at labels get "Passed" hundreds of Demos every day, you could do a google search for names and addresses and "pass" them your demo yourself. What is this guy going to do to make sure your demo even gets heard? what is your money paying for? is he really promoting you to a label or just dropping a CD in the mail? Also worth thinking about: what happens if this guy says the music isn't "Any Good" He just takes your money and walks away?

Whether you go with this guy or you record yourself the problem remains that you need promotion. A label is more likely to sign a band/artist with an existing following as half their job is already done, they can count on some sales to existing fans to help them begin to see revenue before they have to worry about getting more people interested. The problem with a complete unknown is (unless you are so amazing and unique your music will sell itself on the first listen) everthing is downside and risk to the label. They have to build a fan base for you before they even begin to try and sell anything and that's expensive.
If you record yourself you face the same conundrum. nobody knows about you, why are they going to buy your stuff and how will they even know about it (think about ow often you buy music you never heard, by someone you never heard of based on random names you typed into a search engine). You have to market, place your music on radio stations, get it up on web stores, get physical copies into local stores, try to get gigs to promote yourself and get exposure so that people know about you, set up a website and so on and on and on.

All of that costs. Money, blood sweat and tears over and above all the expense of actually getting the album made.

In many respects making the album is the easy part. What happens next in terms of getting people to listen, like, pay attention and hopefully eventually buy (not just steal through ilegal downlaods/filesharing) is beyond difficult even if you have great material. To break even on the promotion costs alone requires a *LOT* of sales, once you start trying to think about the initial recording costs too.... Well think about this: Napster pays you 2 cents for any song they stream to a paid up member. Amazon/iTunes and the like pay you around say 50 cents per song you sell through them. You're talking about having to sell/stream thousands of songs just to cover your recording and promoting costs and you have to continually promote if you expect new people to listen so that cost keeps adding up.

So before you think about spending your parents money (That they want you to pay back in fairly short order) on this venture, Make sure you have a really solid, realistic and realizable plan to start generating some serious sales (hundreds of songs per month) right out of the gate. Otherwise you are essentially spending a large chunk of cash to make the greatest album *NEVER* heard.

For every Rags to riches, unknown to superstar, overnight youtube sensations you hear about there are tens of thousands of people who didn't get anywhere, that you never heard of Becomming one of the very rare successes needs amazing talent, a realy solid plan, a lot of hard work, a lot of luck and a good deal of money behind you

The first thing to becomming a success anywhere is to understand the cost/risks and knowing how you will deal with them, you can't just assume that the upside will always be in your favor. People aren't going to buy an EP just cos you went to the trouble of making it
 
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DIY! It's cheaper and the more you learn and develop your skills the better it will serve you in the future. Oh yeah, get in a band!
 
Here's my take.

No don't pay for time. Invest in this in two ways;

1. Personal Equipment.
2. Time - get out and play.

VST's are great for sketching, and some people use them for recording. This is what I would do if I were you.

Save some money or borrow some. Whatever. Get yourself 3-4 decent mics. I assume you want to use a computer so get a decent interface with four inputs.

For pianos and such; check out local arts centers, schools, churches, etc. Chances are someone will let you use their piano (if even for a small fee.)

If you're worried about mixing you may try this idea....

Mix them the best you can. Burn off about 50-100 cds and sell them at $5 a disc. With some half decen DIY packaging you should be set. The cool thing is that you can do some hand-done art or whatever, individually number them and tell people that it's a limited run.

Once you have these sold you can take that money and pay to have them professionally mixed. Many places will mix for you and you can just send them your raw files. Then you can re-release your professional mix.

Start slow man. You've got nothing but time. Paying to DIY and learn is much better (IMO) than paying someone else.

just a thought.
 
dintymoore said:
That's nuts. Put the mic at your console and take off your Adidas. :)
Click to expand...

Exactly. Why are you recording in a separate room? And please don't tell us you record vocals in a closet, home-made "booth", or any other ludicrous contraption. If your room is good enough to mix in, it should be good enough to record in.
 
Steenamaroo said:
might be worth posting up a list of what you already have, hardware wise.

unless you're reasonably well set up already, i think you might need more than just a rode and a reflection filter. tell us what you've got..


my personal opinion is.. your first cd will not sound the way you want it to sound.

it comes down to what YOU want.

if you want a good cd and that's it? shop around for a cheaper studio.( i know you said there aren't any, but what about local college studios? or students? what about hobbyists like a lot of the guys on here? they mite not have big adverts all over the place, but they're out there!!)

if you want a good cd,(perhaps not first time around), and a learning curve, then home recording is for you.
Click to expand...

Man I'm using a sm58 with a dmp3 preamp direct to sound card. So yh the sound quality is less noise but sounds pretty dull not crispy. Dunno if a se reflect would help but I know the producer dude uses it co Ive been to his vocal booth which is in his house. He uses Neumann so that's the difference and plus has 1000$$$ worth of top preamps and comp which makes me look like a complete noon lol. Since it takes me like 8 hours to record just chorus and verse I'm thinking of just giving up onthe album since I can't do this by myself clearly for long. It's fling stressful when u gotthe lyrics and instrumental but can't record it the way I want.
 
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