Is FireWire the way to go?

S

Studio Guru

New member
I'm interested in the Mackie Onyx 1640i 16-Channel Premium Analog Mixer with FireWire Interface for my home studio. I need an education on firewire and other alternatives from some of the experts here!
 
I've been using the Mackie Onyx mixers from day one. Started with the older 1640 and last year picked up the 1640i. My first DAW was an old AMD850 Anthlon (old single core) with 2 gigs memory and it worked just fine. Im now running a Intel i7 2600k with 16 gigs memory and it runs fine. Slower pc's with lower memory count will limit the amount of plugins you can run on a mix. You want to get the quickest pc you can afford with at least 7200rpm hard drives (2), one drive for the OS and DAW, the other to record to. And at least 8 gigs of memory. Now the important part !!!! If the new pc has built in "Firewire", make sure it is a Texas Instrument firewire chip !!!! If you cant find a board with a TI Chip, then buy an add on card with a TI chip. Siig makes some great Firewire Cards and they are under $30.
 
Ethan Winer said:
I'm pretty sure USB is the future more than Firewire.

--Ethan
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Thank you, Ethan! I'm sure to ask you a lot about acoustic treatment in the future. Can you please tell me the differences between USB and firewire? Is it all the same basic setup of running from the vocal mics and instruments and amps into the mixer, and then running from the mixer to the computer that's using computer software, like pro tools, or is it a whole different thing?
 
BushmasterM4 said:
I've been using the Mackie Onyx mixers from day one. Started with the older 1640 and last year picked up the 1640i. My first DAW was an old AMD850 Anthlon (old single core) with 2 gigs memory and it worked just fine. Im now running a Intel i7 2600k with 16 gigs memory and it runs fine. Slower pc's with lower memory count will limit the amount of plugins you can run on a mix. You want to get the quickest pc you can afford with at least 7200rpm hard drives (2), one drive for the OS and DAW, the other to record to. And at least 8 gigs of memory. Now the important part !!!! If the new pc has built in "Firewire", make sure it is a Texas Instrument firewire chip !!!! If you cant find a board with a TI Chip, then buy an add on card with a TI chip. Siig makes some great Firewire Cards and they are under $30.
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Thanks, Bushmaster! Do you know a rough guess on what I'd be spending for the kind of pc you're recommending?
 
Studio Guru said:
Thank you, Ethan! I'm sure to ask you a lot about acoustic treatment in the future. Can you please tell me the differences between USB and firewire? Is it all the same basic setup of running from the vocal mics and instruments and amps into the mixer, and then running from the mixer to the computer that's using computer software, like pro tools, or is it a whole different thing?
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Short answer: Firewire has had some advantages over USB in the past in terms of sustained transfer rates. But USB has dominated Firewire in the marketplace, and Firewire is disappearing from PCs and laptops. That doesn't mean that a Firewire interface wont work well for you, I'm just saying that they are going to disappear in the future.
 
RWhite said:
Short answer: Firewire has had some advantages over USB in the past in terms of sustained transfer rates. But USB has dominated Firewire in the marketplace, and Firewire is disappearing from PCs and laptops. That doesn't mean that a Firewire interface wont work well for you, I'm just saying that they are going to disappear in the future.
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Thanks! This is the very reason I joined this great community!
 
BushmasterM4 said:
Now the important part !!!! If the new pc has built in "Firewire", make sure it is a Texas Instrument firewire chip !!!! If you cant find a board with a TI Chip, then buy an add on card with a TI chip.
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IIRC this isn't an issue with new motherboards - this was a problem a few years ago but newer chipsets don't have this issue.
 
Even speaking as an existing Firewire user, I'd be very wary of investing in Firewire technology any more. It's getting increasingly difficult to get stock computers with Firewire ports and, particularly with laptops, they're also starting to lack the appropriate card bus slots to add on a 3rd party Firewire port.

If you stick to desktops then you might have a bit more time but I strongly feel the writing is on the wall for Firewire technology. Getting close to the dreaded "computer upgrade" time, I'm seriously wondering what to do. I've recently (in the past week) done some maintenance on my main sound laptop to try and keep it going a bit longer to see where technology is going.
 
My understanding of firewire is like this:

USB (especially USB 3.0)is the fastest rate, but it is harder on you processor causing some delay and glitches on occasion when running heavy software, midi, tracking multiple items, etc...

Firewire has a slower rate, but is easier on the processor causing less delay and glitching when running heavy software, midi, tracking multiple items, etc...

Firewire is still available with almost every apple computer, but not so much on PC anymore. I am sure technology will get USB to surpass firewire soon, but I still feel firewire is the best right now. If you have serious RAM and a top notch processor, USB is probably best. I have 6GB, and my usb lags hardcore behind my firewire.
 
FireWire is much better for audio and for hard drives because of the CPU load involved. However, as others have noted, it is becoming less common. USB is not the future either, though. USB is a rather poor solution for pretty much everything, whose only real benefit is cost. The future is Thunderbolt. Thunderbolt, not USB, will replace FireWire for high-end audio interfaces in the coming years. For example:

Universal Audio APOLLO QUAD Audio Interface w/ QUAD Core Processing | Full Compass

Also, in a couple of years, you'll be able to buy cheap adapters to make FireWire available on any computer that has Thunderbolt. (Right now, they cost a grand apiece and come with a free LCD monitor attached or cost a couple hundred bucks for a Thunderbolt to ExpressCard adapter plus a FireWire ExpressCard. Once companies start building integrated adapters, I'd expect to see them for around $20-25.) So the lack of FireWire on many modern PCs is actually somewhat temporary, and should go away once Thunderbolt ports become more common.
 
Yes. Absolutely.

The choice of USB vs. Firewire does not in any way affect your QUALITY, only the reliability of the throughput. Most of the supposed issues listed above are purely theoretical unless you have an extremely high channel count. For the typical home studio set up, there will be no issues with USB2 and above at all. (USB1 can be a bit limiting.)

As for Thunderbolt vs. USB3, I'll be sitting back and watching before investing in gear using one or the other. Thunderbolt is effectively a rebadged, reconnectored PC Express slot. Yes, Thunderbolt is technically superior--but Betamax was better than VHS and Firewire was better than USB. There's an installed base of something like 10 billion USB ports out there now and that's going to be hard to topple. Add in that I've read a 2 metre USB3 cable will cost about $5 while a 2 metre Thunderbolt cable will cost $50 and I wonder which will become dominant.

However, my advice remains: do not invest in Firewire based interfaces anymore unless you REALLY need it and REALLY think about your future computers. Beyond that, it's up to you. You pays your money and takes your chances.
 
But most of the "good quality" interfaces use firewire :) I wonder why ? So I would find the best interface you can afford along with a descent pc and whatever connection it uses, well, so be it. If your pc doesnt have that connection, buy a $30 card. If it does, your all set !!! Go make some music !!!! :)
 
BushmasterM4 said:
But most of the "good quality" interfaces use firewire :) I wonder why ? So I would find the best interface you can afford along with a descent pc and whatever connection it uses, well, so be it. If your pc doesnt have that connection, buy a $30 card. If it does, your all set !!! Go make some music !!!! :)
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What a load of twaddle.

Arguably the two best manufacturers of interfaces are RME and MOTU. Both of them do USB interfaces up to the point where channel count dictates the need for the bandwidth of Firewire. I don't think there are many home studios that need to record 32 or 56 simultaneous tracks.

Your "buy a $30 card" advice may work for the time being with desktop work stations but many people now want the convenience and portability of a laptop. Go to a shop and try to find a laptop with built in Firewire or a PC Express slot for an adaptor. They're scarce as hen's teeth.

I repeat: there is no QUALITY difference between Firewire and USB2/3. The differences are in data throughput and CPU use. At the number of tracks used in most home studios, there is no problem whatsoever using USB2. If you need the number of tracks that dictate Firewire, chances are you may wish to work differently anyway--perhaps a digital mixer an Audinate system for example.

When spending somebody else's money, I always want to be careful to point out the downsides--and Firewire has definite downsides these days. If, after thinking about all the issues, somebody still wants to go that route, that's great. As I say, I still use Firewire myself but am actively researching alternatives for my next computer upgrade.

Uninformed and inaccurate twaddle like "good quality interfaces use Firewire" are no help at all.

Yeah, go make some music--but don't waste money on a system that will be difficult to support next year.
 
Bobbsy said:
Arguably the two best manufacturers of interfaces are RME and MOTU. Both of them do USB interfaces up to the point where channel count dictates the need for the bandwidth of Firewire.
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Yes, and when USB 3 becomes the norm not so long from now there will be no speed advantage to Firewire. My own experience over the last three computers has been that USB devices generally are more reliable than Firewire. I have a MyBook external hard drive with both USB and Firewire connections that I use for backups. When I first got it I connected it through Firewire. Half the time when I'd turn it on the computer wouldn't see the drive unless I rebooted. After many months putting up with that I switched it to use the USB connection, and it's worked perfectly ever since, which is many years now. I had the same experience using Firewire for video capture. Half the time I'd plug in the camera and nothing would happen. I understand that not everyone has this problem, but I did on several (Windows) computers.

I recently bought a Focusrite Saphire 8i6 USB sound card and it worked perfectly the first time out of the box. So USB sound cards definitely work, and can very high quality.

--Ethan
 
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