intonation on an electric

[XLR]

Coolcat, I bet you've been standing the guitar up next to the clothes dryer, huh?

 

[gtrman_66]

You do have fresh strings on this guitar don't you?

I'll second that. My intonation is usually spot on until the strings get some miles on them, then my E and B start going to hell, usually the E first. Changing strings for a fresh set works wonders

 

[Nicole_Rose]

a question. why should one not tune with harmonics?

 

[apl]

The twelfth fret harmonic is, by definition, EXACTLY one octave above the open string, which is what the fretted note needs to be.

Hey, Light, if the string is not uniform in mass or stiffness over its length, and it's not to some degree, then you could get easily get a situation where the second bending mode (12th fret harmonic) is not exactly twice the frequency of the first bending mode (open).

 

[apl]

Take it to a good repair shop and get it setup. Unless you have a strobe tuner, you don't have the right tools to set your intonation.

Hey, Light, I was running some numbers, and it looks like a 0.1 cent difference in pitch translates to about 0.0004 inches of saddle travel on a 12th fret high E. This would be about 8° rotation of 56 thread per inch screw. Therefore it is reasonable for you to recommend a strobe.

 

[apl]

My Squier Bullet had a nut that was cut so bad it was impossible to set up. I had it recut and the guitar is very good now.

 

[Light]

I know that it is a commonly used technique and trusted by many, but that doesn't address my previous point that the open string is generated by the nut, while all other notes are fretted.

If the nut is not adjusted properly, then you are wasting your time setting intonation no matter HOW you do it, because it will be out of tune in the first couple of positions no matter how you set the intonation. A proper setup adjusts, the neck, the nut, the action, and only THEN do you get to the intonation. If the nut is properly adjusted, then your objection is completely without merit.

As I said, setting intonation from with the harmonic and the 12th fret is a fine way to do it.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Light]

a question. why should one not tune with harmonics?

Because the guitar is an equal tempered instrument (more or less), and so other than the octave harmonic (the twelfth fret) the harmonics are not actually in tune with the fretted notes.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[32-20-Blues]

Quick question Coolcat - you are re-tuning the high e string after each adustment to the saddle, right?

 

[JCM900]

In reguards to saying "you need a real strobe not the virtual strobe" the peterson virtual strobes have the same accuracy as the motor driven strobes, 0.1 cents. I doubt thats theres anyone that can hear a 0.1 cent discrepency.

 

[CoolCat]

I bet it's a bad string.

Is the high E string's saddle set so its vibrating length is slightly less than the B string?

You do have fresh strings on this guitar don't you?

yeah... I changed the strings. it came in.

that was a good one, appreciate the info. and then some.

sometimes I just feel like Rip VanWinkle.

Another possibility, by the way. It is possible that you have a bad string, so you might want to try and replace the string which is off. It may or may not work, but it is worth a try.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

I'll second that. My intonation is usually spot on until the strings get some miles on them, then my E and B start going to hell, usually the E first. Changing strings for a fresh set works wonders

Hey, Light, if the string is not uniform in mass or stiffness over its length, and it's not to some degree, then you could get easily get a situation where the second bending mode (12th fret harmonic) is not exactly twice the frequency of the first bending mode (open).

That was a cheap fix too! Thanks everyone....

 

[travelin travis]

In reguards to saying "you need a real strobe not the virtual strobe" the peterson virtual strobes have the same accuracy as the motor driven strobes, 0.1 cents. I doubt thats theres anyone that can hear a 0.1 cent discrepency.

I'm curious to know if a real strobe has any benefits over a virtual strobe. I've never owned a strobe tuner but I've been using aptuner (software) for a little while and it's been working out great.

 

[travelin travis]

so it was a bad string? old or just bad?

 

[CoolCat]

I don't know if it was an old string or bad string?
its a friend of my sons guitar that was just left over here at my place.

I was just messing about and checked out the intonation on this Butterscotch Tele Fender-Squire-Affinity per some thread I was reading. so again I don't know.

always check the basic stuff first, seems to work with this ex-problem.

 

[Light]

I'm curious to know if a real strobe has any benefits over a virtual strobe. I've never owned a strobe tuner but I've been using aptuner (software) for a little while and it's been working out great.

The virtual strobes seem to work just fine. The only reason I don't have one is that I've already got two old analog strobes.



Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[travelin travis]

The virtual strobes seem to work just fine. The only reason I don't have one is that I've already got two old analog strobes.



Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

That's good to know. Thanks.

I don't mean to hijack this thread but I have an intonation question. I got around to checking my acoustic's intonation and found that fretted notes are on average about 5 cents sharp. Is that likely worn nut slots? I've never had a new nut on this guitar. I think I've owned it about 7 years. I also noticed that fretted notes get slightly sharper as I go up the neck. When I get to the 12th fret of the high E, it's 8 cents sharp, which is the sharpest note on the neck up to the 12th fret. The action on this guitar is fairly low.

What is considered normal tolerance for flat/sharp notes in cents?

 

[Light]

That's good to know. Thanks.

I don't mean to hijack this thread but I have an intonation question. I got around to checking my acoustic's intonation and found that fretted notes are on average about 5 cents sharp. Is that likely worn nut slots? I've never had a new nut on this guitar. I think I've owned it about 7 years. I also noticed that fretted notes get slightly sharper as I go up the neck. When I get to the 12th fret of the high E, it's 8 cents sharp, which is the sharpest note on the neck up to the 12th fret. The action on this guitar is fairly low.

What is considered normal tolerance for flat/sharp notes in cents?

No, that's not the nut slots. They may be high, but if it is getting worse as you go up the neck then there is not enough compensation in the saddle. Take it to a good repair person to have them look at all the variables, because as I've said before, if you don't do everything in the right order, your just chasing your own tail.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[32-20-Blues]

What is considered normal tolerance for flat/sharp notes in cents?

I have been told that anything less than five cents is acceptable on an acoustic, but I think it depends on what you are personally happy with. It also depends on a number of factors, like: do you play unaccompanied, solo guitar? - if so, you should be fine. Do you even spend much time up around that end of the neck on an acoustic? Do you have a heavy touch? This last one is important - when my brother plays my Strat, which is set up with a very low action, it buzzes all over the fretboard, and the intonation is way off. I don't dig in as much, and so it sounds fine.

 

[travelin travis]

I have been told that anything less than five cents is acceptable on an acoustic, but I think it depends on what you are personally happy with. It also depends on a number of factors, like: do you play unaccompanied, solo guitar? - if so, you should be fine. Do you even spend much time up around that end of the neck on an acoustic? Do you have a heavy touch? This last one is important - when my brother plays my Strat, which is set up with a very low action, it buzzes all over the fretboard, and the intonation is way off. I don't dig in as much, and so it sounds fine.

The guitar sounds fine. I can tell that something isn't quite right but I don't hear any major beating between notes. When I check single open notes against single fretted notes, I can hear some slight beating. I play this guitar completely solo so it's probably not worth going thru any trouble over.