intonation on an electric

[CoolCat]

I am getting strange results.

Just been playing around with a intonation check, off the internet;
I did the harmonic "chime" on the 12th, and then a fingered-note on the 12th.

All 5 strings are in tune, good enough, except the high E?
The high E, requires a substantial upward bend to be in tune?

Its a electric, Squire Tele...

Any inputs?

 

[32-20-Blues]

I am getting strange results.

Just been playing around with a intonation check, off the internet;
I did the harmonic "chime" on the 12th, and then a fingered-note on the 12th.

All 5 strings are in tune, good enough, except the high E?
The high E, requires a substantial upward bend to be in tune?

Its a electric, Squire Tele...

Any inputs?

3 saddle bridge or 6 saddle? If its a 3 saddle, then you might just have to live with it. Intonation on one of those is always a compromise - you should be able to get it pretty close, though. Check it with a strobe tuner - even a good set of ears will not notice a 5hz difference in frequency/pitch.

 

[whjr15]

I'm no guitar expert, but I'd venture to say it's inherent among Squire's. I have a Squire, and I can't get the intonation right to save my life. It always seems like I need more of a bridge to make enough compensation on one or 2 strings.

I usually just tune it as close as I can to the chord progression I'm playing at the time, and then re-tune when I need to move up/down the neck, lol.

If you can't get it, you could take it in to get it looked at/fixed professionally.... And then tell me how they fixed it haha.

Good luck.

 

[Light]

Take it to a good repair shop and get it setup. Unless you have a strobe tuner, you don't have the right tools to set your intonation.

That said, if the string is flat when you fret it, the saddle needs to move closer to the nut (i.e., you need to shorten the length of the string).



Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Dani Pace]

As Light said, take it to a shop for a set up. If nessassary they will replace the adjustment screw with a longer one to get that "little bit more" adjustment to get that string right too. Ears and most tuners will get you cloce, but a strobe tuner (real strobe not a virtual strobe) is the best tool for setting intonation.
I have a Squire Tele with through the body tailpiece, I compared the saddles on it with a standard and mine are noticeably longer. A new set of saddles might solve your problem, or it may be that you just need to have it set up properly. BTW super light guage strings are harder (at least for me) to set up than light or medium.

 

[CoolCat]

ok, so it isn't that abnormal it sounds...from these posts.

I have a friend with a strobe tuner. Maybe this will help.

Moving the saddle didn't seem to do anything. I made sure it wasn't binding, but still not enough to tweak it in, I guess?

There are 6qty saddles on this Squire Tele.

Its pretty bad, imo. and I'm not that picky. The thing is flat, but its noticeable to the ear at the 12th fret when pressing on the note.

Its a substantial upward bend to bring the hi-E in, so it's pretty bad in my opinion. its a guitar of my sons friend (they often leave their gear laying around here and i play all the stuff).

Did eliminate some buzz out of this thing, so all wasn't in vein.

Whjr15..you said its possibly inherent in Squires...what specifically could make one string out of 6 be out? is it a twisted neck or poorly installed neck?

What is this "problem" called technically? just wondering...

 

[32-20-Blues]

Whjr15..you said its possibly inherent in Squires...what specifically could make one string out of 6 be out? is it a twisted neck or poorly installed neck?

What is this "problem" called technically? just wondering...

With regard to Squiers, the problem is that the bridge isn't designed or installed to allow the saddles to travel far enough to set intonation accurately. The problem is called many things: Poor intonation, bad intonation, fucked-up intonation, etc... If it is noticable to your ears, then there is a pretty big problem.

 

[Light]

Another possibility, by the way. It is possible that you have a bad string, so you might want to try and replace the string which is off. It may or may not work, but it is worth a try.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[CoolCat]

I can change a string easily.
Yeah its noticeable to the ear. I did speak with my friend who has a strobe too.
Like Dani said, maybe a longer screw. With my tuner I can't even see a change with the saddle movement, maybe a strobe would show something?

pretty strange one, imo...
I still can't grasp how 5 stings can be ok and only the high E is out.

 

[ofajen]

I am getting strange results.

Just been playing around with a intonation check, off the internet;
I did the harmonic "chime" on the 12th, and then a fingered-note on the 12th.

All 5 strings are in tune, good enough, except the high E?
The high E, requires a substantial upward bend to be in tune?

Its a electric, Squire Tele...

Any inputs?

A few thoughts that may, or may not, be useful:

1) Remember that the open string and it's pitch are generated by the nut (assuming it doesn't have a last fret instead), while all the other notes are fretted and sometimes the open notes don't jive with the fretted notes. After all, they are mechanically different in their generation.

2) To check the intonation of the fretted notes on an electric, I start with 5th and 17th fret, and probably 12th fret to make sure the trend is consistent.

3) For your problem string, try tuning the 5th fret and comparing at 12th and 17th fret.

4) If you still have a big problem and you have maxed out on moving the saddle adjuster towards the neck, then you are probably stuck unless you can change the saddle or raise that string's height some to increase deflection of fretted notes and raise the pitch of the higher fretted notes relative to the open and lower fretted notes.

5) Checking those other fretted notes will also let you know if you happen to have some kind of a fret problem around the 12th fret or a general intonation problem.

6) That problem string wouldn't happen to be abnormally grungy or rusted would it? That can skew the intonation, too.

Just a few thoughts.

Cheers,

Otto

 

[XLR]

I bet it's a bad string.

Is the high E string's saddle set so its vibrating length is slightly less than the B string?

 

[travelin travis]

You do have fresh strings on this guitar don't you?

 

[Micter]

With a 25.5" scale 6 saddle bridge you can eyeball it pretty close "usually". The High E should be set the closest to the nut. The other thing is don't use harmonics. Zero fret and 12th fret are the best bet with a string that is giving you problems.

 

[Light]

With a 25.5" scale 6 saddle bridge you can eyeball it pretty close "usually". The High E should be set the closest to the nut. The other thing is don't use harmonics. Zero fret and 12th fret are the best bet with a string that is giving you problems.

The 12th fret harmonic and the fretted twelfth fret is the absolute standard, and it works as well as anything. The twelfth fret harmonic is, by definition, EXACTLY one octave above the open string, which is what the fretted note needs to be. It works as well as anything (guitars are NEVER perfectly in tune), and it make it MUCH easier to see what is happening on the tuner (or, for that matter, to hear it if you are trying to do it by ear). You never want to TUNE to harmonics, but it is a perfectly fine way to set intonation.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Micter]

The 12th fret harmonic and the fretted twelfth fret is the absolute standard, and it works as well as anything. The twelfth fret harmonic is, by definition, EXACTLY one octave above the open string, which is what the fretted note needs to be. It works as well as anything (guitars are NEVER perfectly in tune), and it make it MUCH easier to see what is happening on the tuner (or, for that matter, to hear it if you are trying to do it by ear). You never want to TUNE to harmonics, but it is a perfectly fine way to set intonation.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

I coordially disagree under the circumstance that he's having a problem with that method. If I'm having a difficult time with a string using the fretted note can be more stable. Now usually I will use a combination of zero fret, 12th fret, and 12th fret harmonic to get the best results.

 

[Dani Pace]

I just thought I'd add this to make you feel a little better about an uncooperative string. I've seen similar problems on a number of other guitars, other than Squires. Often guitars with stopbar/tune-o-matic bridges are the worse. The amount of travel room on a tune-o-matic is very limited so the amount of adjustment is also limited. If your tuner isn't showing a difference in pitch after making adjustments you might try loosening the string then retuneing it to pitch between adjustments. Try using the neck pickup with the tone turned to the low end and the volume about 3/4, sometimes this helps. If the problem persists either raise the action or replace the saddle adjustment screw with a longer one.

 

[ofajen]

The 12th fret harmonic and the fretted twelfth fret is the absolute standard, and it works as well as anything. The twelfth fret harmonic is, by definition, EXACTLY one octave above the open string, which is what the fretted note needs to be. It works as well as anything (guitars are NEVER perfectly in tune), and it make it MUCH easier to see what is happening on the tuner (or, for that matter, to hear it if you are trying to do it by ear).

I, too, would respectfully disagree. I know that it is a commonly used technique and trusted by many, but that doesn't address my previous point that the open string is generated by the nut, while all other notes are fretted. So comparing the open note with any fretted note is reliable only once you've established that everything is perfectly up to spec for the open note generated by the nut. It could happen to be correct at the 12th fret but wrong everywhere else and sound truly awful on everything you play.

OTOH, comparing fretted notes (say, 5th, 12th and 17th frets) and getting them to tune properly will help everything across the fretboard sound better. Then you can compare back to the open notes and figure out if you issues there, too. As a last resort, you can tune with a capo and essentially bypass any issues caused by the nut (until you can get them fixed, if possible).

Cheers

Otto

 

[ofajen]

OTOH, comparing fretted notes (say, 5th, 12th and 17th frets) and getting them to tune properly will help everything across the fretboard sound better. Then you can compare back to the open notes and figure out if you issues there, too. As a last resort, you can tune with a capo and essentially bypass any issues caused by the nut (until you can get them fixed, if possible).

Further elaboration... once you've figured out that the fretted notes are as good as may be across the fretboard, if you find that the first few fretted notes are sharp, relative to the open notes, you may find, for instance that the nut action is too high on several strings and requires too much deflection on fretted notes, causing them to be sharp. Correcting the nut action then brings all those notes closer into tune with the open notes. I hope this is beginning to clarify the separate mechanics and issues we have to deal with with open versus fretted notes.

Cheers,

Otto

 

[MCI2424]

Further elaboration... once you've figured out that the fretted notes are as good as may be across the fretboard, if you find that the first few fretted notes are sharp, relative to the open notes, you may find, for instance that the nut action is too high on several strings and requires too much deflection on fretted notes, causing them to be sharp. Correcting the nut action then brings all those notes closer into tune with the open notes. I hope this is beginning to clarify the separate mechanics and issues we have to deal with with open versus fretted notes.

Cheers,

Otto

I had a Fender Start back in the 80s that had all the frets in the wrong place. Open would tune fine, any fretting was off about 15Cents on a strobe tuner.

 

[cannabis]

this is a long shot

but if your nut groove on the 1st string

were too low

and the first fret is acting as the nut for that string

that would cause what you are hearing



but your harmonic would be best heard

above the 13th fret too