I'm looking at the Shure SM4 - I'm not going to treat my environment and I might also be outside in the countryside.

[Punk Rocker]

Is this an okay mike for recording myself? It looks to be the best option if I'm not treating a room.
Also I really do want phantom power and this mic needs it, which is a cool bonus.

Let me know if you have any experiences out there that might have an opinion on this mic choice.

 

[ecc83]

I know nothing of the Shure M4 but you should not take any capacitor mic out into the cold and damp.
There is always an exception! https://www.sennheiser.com/en-gb/pr...UmnksxNFUD-yFhUSQKoyawIlS7v5Kap_hPIz0tNAADKlb That and other Sennheiser microphones work on a different principle from the ultra high impedance system of others.
Dave.

 

[Punk Rocker]

I know nothing of the Shure M4 but you should not take any capacitor mic out into the cold and damp.

Dave.

Thanks for the heads up, it'd just be when the weather is nice I live kind of isolated from too much, and can go to even better spots if I want to super easily.
All this said, the best isolation I'd get is a pretty big 2k sqft shop. That is also an option I just kind of realized might be recordable in, though it would be annoying to cut on/off the HVAC.

Mostly I just want a bit of a beginner mic to work with in the house to try and become a singer. Not looking for a miracle. Just trying to get my voice clear and noteworthy and without the need for EQ is my goal and then I'm walking back to the mic store.

 

[ecc83]

Please forgive me if I am wrong in my assumption from your sobriquet but "Punk" vocals tend to be loud, 'in yer face' and not (and I could be in a LOT of trouble here!) THAT demanding of the ultimate in audio quality?

That said, I have to wonder why you have fixed on a capacitor mic? I would have thought a dynamic such as the ubiquitous SM58 would have been more suitable? For the price of the Shure cap mic you could look at the SM7b or examples from ElectroVoice?

A close use dynamic also makes sense in your case. No room treatment so the closer* you get the less the room will intrude and "noises off" HVAC e.g will be less obtrusive. You mention "phantom power" so what will be providing that? If an Audio Interface, and I am right about the loud voice, you have a vast choice since almost any of them will have good enough pre amps for you, even the notoriously 'quiet' 7b.

*You say "no EQ" but even with the M4 you are bound to get some bass boost proximity effect which needs to be tamed and whichever mic you end up with a pop gag is essential.

Dave.

 

[Punk Rocker]

I plan on just singing Country, Pop, Rock covers till I can find myself into a project perhaps writing and making music or something with a better voice is the end goal here.
Not actually Punk though - sorry for misleading the forum with the name. Though I really do appreciate the run down! I mean also there's mainstream success quality and mainstream success from participation in the Punk Genre. I have some detailed headphones that kind of make me bleed a little though I did try to enjoy Punk. (Sony MDR-Z1R).

 

[Punk Rocker]

I really don't know why but I just kind of got it in my head a 48V Mike is just better from the gecko like a V6 engine being a little less to work with than a V8.

 

[ecc83]

I really don't know why but I just kind of got it in my head a 48V Mike is just better from the gecko like a V6 engine being a little less to work with than a V8.

Ha! MUCH better men than I can school you on microphones here but this is MY potted history!

The main advantages of the Large Diaphragm Capacitor microphone are a high sensitivity (means a high output voltage for a given sound pressure. Commonly 10 times (20dB) 'hotter' than a dynamic. This reduces the low noise requirements in the pre amp for quiet sources though it has to be said, pre amps these days are really mainly good enough for most mics/jobs.
Perhaps even more important though is the cap' mic's wide, flat* frequency response. You can expect a good response down to 40Hz and up to 18 or 20kHz (I have not checked the SM4's specc. will do!) This wide response is coupled with low distortion. Capacitor mics are generally thought of as more "hi fi" than dynamics BUT! Mics are very much a personal choice, especially for voices.

The downside to that high sensitivity and wide response it that the mics pickup much more of EVERYTHING. This is NOT because of the operating principle. Give an SM58 20dB more gain than normal and it too will collect all the **** in creation!

With a dynamic though you can get in closer, like <50mm (pop shield!) and not 'blast' the mic. Not so with most capacitors. but, as I said, very close working will make your voice bassier.

Then we have SMALL d capacitors. Much the same applies as for their bigger bros but sensitivity is a few dB lower and "self noise" a little worse. Very usable on instruments mainly. My son records classical guitar with a pair of Lewitt 040s.

*Almost all LDCs have a 'bumpy' upper mid range with a presence boost from perhaps 4kHkz to 8kHz then level again out to 18/20k.

Dave.

 

[ecc83]

SM4 User Guide - Shure

Manual for the Shure SM4 cardioid condenser microphone and SM4-K-KIT. Find specifications, setup, tips, and how to replace the shock mount rubber bands.

www.shure.com

Hmm, not much of a presence boost, just a bump at 4kHz but it is about 6dB up at 15kHz or so and therefore I would expect most people would say that gives it more "air" !!

Dave.

 

[rob aylestone]

A nice mic, not too expensive and it has a bit less proximity effect than many. I think my lack of interest in it is simply that it does what loads of other do - no major exciting features. Outside is 'interesting' - probably forme, just the issues that condensation causes when water condenses out on a larger diaphragm. I take my 414's outside - but on stages out of the real wet. That said, they often need a night in the boiler cupboard to get rid of the noise two of them seem to generate after exposure to damp wind. Of course, the same thing happens to small diaphragm ones too, but usually not quite so much. Looking at my mic collection - if I wanted a nice sounding LDC that I would risk outside, it would be the old Rode NT1s - they sound nice and you can buy them quite cheaply on ebay - limiting risk if one noises-out!

 

[ecc83]

Yes Rob. Nice mic, if it was anyone else but Shure I would take the claims of low proximity effect and resistance to popping with a tablespoon of NaCl but I think we can trust 'em?!

Son is well served for mics at the moment otherwise I would get him one to try. He should be in a position to go "Neumann nuts" in a month or so but I shall caution him that he needs to audition anything he is thinking of buying. Actually his next acquisition is likely to be a 61, even 88 note keyboard. He is getting back into piano again but 49 keys is limiting!

Dave.

 

[rob aylestone]

61 is probably too few now - especially as so many sample packages have keyswitch sections that are growing, and if you tweak things to get access to those, on a 61 note, you often then run out of the high ones! My Nord is a 73 - that's sort of a nice compromise. 49 means 2 hand playing is ultra difficult.

 

[TalismanRich]

I would suspect that it would work fine. I don't see a whole lot that any of 20 other similar mics wouldn't do.

For an example of what you could do with a setup like that go to RadioWV's Youtube channel. They record folk artists from around the Virginia and West Virginia mountains using a Rode NT1A and a few other mics, usually in an outdoor setting somewhere. They use a small interface with a laptop, I think it started with a Focusrite Scarlett. He may have additional equipment as he adds channels for bigger groups of people.

The channel has had about 285 million views and a half million subscribers.

radiowv

Real Music, Real People, Real Cuture.

www.youtube.com

 

[Punk Rocker]

I really appreciate the reply's here. Lot's of good info.
Though, yeah - it would mostly be inside to just kind of have an idea of what my voice actually sounds like and where to improve.

 

[rob aylestone]

I’ve been collecting mics for years and have a huge collection now. Dirt cheap through to stupid, and I review lots of them. Looking back, while a few immediately attract an easily understood ‘label’, the majority sound exactly like you imagine. Very few surprises. Putting just a few into the awful category dump bin, the rest fit very neatly into categories. Dark, bright, flattering, revealing, multi-purpose or single purpose. The boring bit is nothing new has appeared for a while. The only different mic I bought was the Shure nexadyne, thinking it would replace the 58. It didn’t, and was three times what the 58 cost.

Best comparison is that it is like looking at your kitchen spice bottles. The ones you use every day. Maybe three out of a cupboard full. Then you replace the popular one with a different brand and it’s nearly the same. But by the time you finish the food, you can’t remember which one was best. Mics really are like that. In my studio is a wired in and connected 57 and an AKG 414. Every recording in the past three weeks has used one of them. Four weeks again the 57 was a 58. I probably have over a hundred mics, and I cannot be bothered to go to the store, move a few modes and pick something different. 2 mics for everyday recording. It’s stupid. Probably I do have something better/nicer/more suitable somewhere, but the fifteen minutes to find it, connect it and discard it are just pointless when there is EQ.

 

[ecc83]

"Best comparison is that it is like looking at your kitchen spice bottles."
Ah but see Rob, I ran out of Taylor's mustard a couple of months ago and had to use Colemans on me burgers. I was VERY happy to eventually get back to the vastly superior Taylors!

BTW Have you got a Neumann MA1 reference microphone? If not I can post a clip of my wafflings.

Dave.

 

[rob aylestone]

Measurement mics always sound really boring don't they! I own just one - a Behringer!

 

[CoolCat]

I was messing about....I left the doors open here, Room Noise . AC, Fans in the other room etc..

Setup the SM7 into the Grace Design preamp> Antelope Interface Line In> then spoke into the SM7 until it was a normal -6 ~-10 on the DAW.

Thought about Room Noise- and Mic Sensitivity.....so I did a quick Room Noise with the mics I had in arms reach..

The audio clip is short but goes through a WA47tube, AGA414 Flat setting, MXL V67, Shure KSM32, AKG P420, Shure SM7, AKG 414 with Full Pad(18db reduced) , just a normal day Room Noise with the mics all plugged in and out aka "IDLE" aka "background noise" and showing the benefit of a SM7b in a somewhat noisy room with very little effort and getting up close to the mic, it works.

Picture shows the DAW scale meter, the BlueCat Freq chart to show the freq;s ...as some Mics, get the room noise as more bass or more higher freqs.

WA47- 32mv/pa / -30dBv/pa (most sensitive)
AKG 414 flat 23 mv/pa / -33dbv
MXLV67 15mv/pa / -36.5 dBV
KSM32 16mv/pa / -36dBV
AKG P420 28mv/pa / -31dBV ( same as U87AI)
SM7 1.12 mv/pa / -59 dBV (least sensitive in bunch)
AKG 414 Full Pad 2.9mv/pa / -50.8 dBV (full pad = least capsule voltage 18 reduction)

 

[ecc83]

Well done CC, now can I press you for one more measurement? If you can return to all the setting but this time no mic but a dummy XLR plug? Ideally with a 200 Ohm metal film resistor across pins 2&3? Failing that a short but even leaving an open circuit seems not to matter much.
That would give you a baseline electronic noise floor.

Dave.

 

[TalismanRich]

I've found that most LDC mics show a fair bit in the ""rumble " frequencies. If the mic has a high pass switch, that clears up that low end and your noise level drops.
Do we really have that much energy at 10Hz?

 

[CoolCat]

I added that, good point. Not much difference than the 150ohm SM7.. alot of this doesnt matter once the drummers and elecric guitars are going!

As the thread mentions

"I'm not going to treat my environment and I might also be outside in the countryside."​

I thought this might be of some interest.
Playing outside might even want a Noise Gate?