I won't beat around the bush.

  • Thread starter Thread starter drstawl
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drstawl

drstawl

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What addition to my mic bucket will be as detailed as the NT-1 but directional like an SM-57 with some great off-axis rejection? I'm flexible, but price does count.

Just tell me up front if I've specified a Klein bottle. :)
 
Just Making Sure

Are you talking about polar plot or strictly sensitvity?
 
Both really but i want to know which and when if you know what I mean.... I'd need some sensitivity at least 75% of the NT-1s and directionality similar to the SM-57s.
 
scared me. i thought this was a political message for a minute
 
drstawl - have you tried these

http://www.shure.com/sm87.html

It's a supercariod condensor from Shure. I've used them on snare (good) and Vocals (also good) (Freddy Mercury used to use one to record with. he would stand at the back of the control room with the main monitors turned up.)

Cheers
John :)
 
No- I haven't, but I'll put it on my list. Where does this sit relative to the SM-56, also supposedly a very tight pattern designed for drums? Pricewise and otherwise.
 
Thanks for your response Mr. Sayers. I use the information I get from trusted sources without reservation.
 
gezz drstawl - how do you get to the number of posts you've made here - do you eat?? :):)
 
I guess I'm just not following the reason why you're looking for what you are; more of the reason for youy needs.
 
I'm trying to mic individual instruments in a quartet and I'm getting too much bleed to do this effectively using the NT-1 or the AT-4033. So much so that without knowing what mic is on what channel in my mixer, just listening to the channel by itself doesn't easily tell me. Sure- the miced instrument is somewhat louder than the rest, but it's not well defined enough to hear in headphones over the sound of the band in the room. Are mics of this sensitivity just impractical for this application?
 
Ahhh, I See

This is where it is VERY important to remember the 3:1 Rule.

And I recommend a mic placement of AT LEAST a good 2-3' away from each intsrument. So of course you'd get some big-time bleed.

If you don't want that far a distance, I recommend you use omnis really close and take advantage of the Inverse-Square Law to make the bleed A LOT more tamable.

However, I really think this is where it's time to start utilizing those stereo microphone techniques to mic the entire quartet.
 
You say you recommend mic placement that will cause severe bleeding? How do you deal with it? Why omnis up close?
Why not cardioid or hypercardioid?
I tried that (stereo micing) first in this room with the pair of NT-1s. While it doesn't sound bad just standing in the room, when recorded it sounds washed out and reverby. Maybe a Decca Tree system with the AT-4033 in the center and the two NT-1s on the sides; all of them way up in the air by putting the mics on top of tall stands on top of tables in the restaurant.
Add an SM57 on snare and an AKG D-112 on kick?
Or should I keep just the 3 condensers?
I think I'll just try both.
That would put the condensers just below the center vertically with respect to the floor and ceiling. I'm flip-flopping between this and:

Marimba miced about 1' away with the NT-1.
The piano is miced about 2' away with the 4033.
The guitar amp cabinet (small amp) is miced about 6" away from an NT-1.
Stand-Up Bass is via a bridge pickup plus an AKG D-112 about 1' from the bridge.
Drums: 1 SM-57 each on the snare and the tom.
SM-58 on the kick drum, with an NT-3 for overhead.
Drums in an adjacent room. Headphone amp to synchronize the musicians.

Any suggestions as to what mics I should get to replace the ones being used? Be reasonable- My plastic is wilting from the latest assault. Or just a different configuration?
 
Look, he's suggesting three options. One involves omnis,which you don't have. One involves 2-3' distances mic-to-instrument, which you know doesn't work because of the spillover. Finally, he's suggesting the classical option: stereo pair miking (you've got a stereo pair, don't deny it, I know the truth). But that needs a room that's good for the job, and that echoey ex-church just isn't going to do it. If it was me, I'd put em in James Taylor's cabin, and stereo mic the buggers. They play jazz. They like stereo miking. Tell em to sit close to each other and relate.

You don't necessarily need to know all the reasons for the option that works. You just need to know the option that works.
 
drstawl - I'd put the SM57 on marimba and lift 10Khz. (tighter than the NT1) I'd mike the piano closer,what is it and upright, if so I'd go inside it. I'd put a SM58 at 4" on guitar,(tighter and guitars don't go as high as a NT1 so it's wasted).I'd put tha NT1s as overheads over rack and floor tom balanced so the snare is centre, SM57 on snare, NT3 on Kick. Drums in other room as you said.

Cheers
John :)
 
Oooppps... Never Mind...

Aaaa! When you said "quartet", I automatically thought you were talking about a string quartet.

"Why omnis up close? Why not cardioid or hypercardioid?"

Because of the Inverse Square Law, you'll get better seperation with omnis than you would with cardioid or hypercardioid.

"I tried that (stereo micing) first in this room with the pair of NT-1s. While it doesn't sound bad just standing in the room, when recorded it sounds washed out and reverby."

You must make sure your mic placement is AT LEAST less than half of Dc (critical distance) when using cardioid mics (and most of the time, it's better to place them even closer to the sound source). To figure-out what Dc is for a room, read this: http://www.shure.com/support/technotes/app-critical.html Also, at about "standing ear level" (approx. 6' heigh).

Lastly, about your close miking set-up with those mics, I suggest maybe moving the D112 from the up-right to the bass drum, the SM-58 from the bass drum to the guitar cab, and the NT-1 from the guitar cab to the up-right?
 
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