i want this mix to sound "wider"

  • Thread starter Thread starter Bisson820
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Brent!! thank you.. i never even thought of that but it makes perfect sense. im gonna give that a shot!! maybe some nice stereo delay on the snare and vary it at different amounts could be cool...

gonna give that a shot.. i cant beleive i didnt think of it
 
Don't get too excited! It's just a suggestion and might not work perfectly.

If I were trying this out, this is what I'd do:

Solo the drums. Pull down ALL of the close mics. You should just have the OHs now. Pan those out (it sounds like they are already). The sound should be kind of wide if the tracking room was at all live. Un-solo the drums so everything else comes back in. The drums should be wider but now buried. I think the rest of the mix sounds pretty good, so see if you can't group all of the other tracks and bring them down a bit together. Either way, bring everything else down to match the drums.

Because they're roomier, they will lack some punch. Now is when you slowly bring those close mics up (the kick and snare) to fill out the sound. You will likely have more kick than snare going, but whatever works. Mix the toms as loud as you want because they aren't exactly a huge part of the room sound during a fill - I doubt you're going for John Bonham kinds of thwack+room reflections on toms.

I listened to "Use Somebody" on your KOL suggestion and if you go back and listen to it you will notice that the guitars aren't very roomy, just hard-panned. All of that "space" aside from the vocal delay comes from the drums.

If you decide to use a plugin on anything, keep the delays really short. Clap your hands in your room and listen for that first reflection; that's how short they should be. If you have a stereo reverb plugin, lengthen the early reflections control if one is available.

Hope that all helps! If not, good luck!
 
Also, if this idea works, you might look to even bring those drums back in towards the center a bit. Although it narrows the drums, it could have the psychological effect of widening the feeling of the whole mix by pushing those wide guitars outside of the room sound.

And another listen to the KOL tune reveals a mono drum kit other than the toms. There's a lot of ring and some verb on that snare, though. A listen to "Sex on Fire" (I'm picking popular ones) reveals a very short stereo delay on the right-panned guitar bleeding left during the intro and a spreading stereo delay (also very short) on some kind of pulsating synth or triggered sound that falls on the "ands" of every beat.
 
Some threads kill me.........Like watching a dog trying to fuck a football. :D
 
The lead guitar at 2:20ish blew my nuts off. nice work. I'm gonna go find my sack now.
 
So when are the vocals and any longer leads going to be added (that was a nice lick at 2:20, but I wouldn't really call it a *lead part* ;)) ...or is this song just an instrumental?

Reason I ask is because when you have vocals/leads that need center stage, it has a big effect on how you mix/place all the other elements. It might change your approach and perspective to the stereo image/depth questions you had.

I see you now focusing on the OH drum mics and how you mix them with the spot mics...and sure, that will change the sound of the kit and open it up...but I'm curious how you are going to spread the guitars further out than they are, which is what you were asking earlier.
I still think you need to "dry them out" a bit before you can push them out, because when they are too diffused (reverb/delay), they get that "deeper" vibe, but it's also hard to place them more specifically in one spot.
IOW...you pan them hard...but the diffused sound makes it seem like they are coming from everywhere/anywhere rather than specifically from hard L/R.

Like I said...you can try a M/S matrix setup on the guitars..though they would need to be initially coded as a stereo track...and then the M/S matrix would allow you to mess with the Mid and Side individually...which means you could push out the Side more than the Mid...though watch out you don't end up with a hole in the center.
Not sure how that will work on just a pair of mono tracks panned L/R.....???
 
we will be recording again this weekend on this song, the end of the song will be recorded and the bridge part will be re-recorded since we dont like the guitar part during that part. the end (where the is just bass and drums currently) will be somewhat of a lead part... not like an 80's guitar lead...a more modern kind of "lead" part since there will most likely be a lot of vocals.

me and my brother are both pretty strong singers, which is nice because we can explore a lot of regions. to expand further... its a blessing to be surrounded by the greatness that my band members have all individually acheived!!... we can explore a lot of avenues.. we're all pretty strong at our instruments, i'll at least speak for my band members on an individual level... my band or not.. they are incredible musicians!!

i hear what your saying Miro, i know its going to change drastically once everything is there.
 
Post it up when it's done.

Not sure if you mentioned it somewhere earlier...but I got the impression it was pretty much you playing all the parts. I see now it's a full band.

What...you don't like 80's leads? ;)
I didn't really mean 5-minute solos...I just meant something a bit more than just a lick or two.

While I certainly can get carried away with leads... :D ...I like to at least toss in something for a few bars or the length of a verse, as it creates a nice break in the song, though I know these days it's not as common...everyone just sings through.
I don't much like when you hear a song that has a break in the vocals for a few bars...but then all they play is a bunch of chords to fill the time. It sounds like they didn't know what to do during that time. :)
 
haha, nope, sorry i should have mentioned it wasnt just all me... i cant play drums very well. and our guitarist seriously outplays me..

and its not that we're not a fan of long solo's, the solo will be a good length, but it wont be the highlight of the section, since there will still be vocals and a full band going along with it.

we throw in some covers for bar shows like comfortably numb and eruption/youreally got me and paradise city and whole lotta love

so we deff throw some classic in there.
 
Since you are obviously looking for the emotion and placement in the arrangement from the git-go, remember that if you do add a lead section that it should have elements of anticipation , pressure and release, and take things up to the the next level of the song as well as intro's the next section. Finger exercises and doodling are really boring.

I like where you're going with this and I also feel you're a bit premature in trying to place things at this juncture. Wanting to place them is spot on and will serve you well at mix.
 
Naaa...I think he's just telling you not to wank on the solo....play something that works witht the rest of the music. :D
 
not to sound like a dink... but im really not looking for writing tips. thanks tho, i think we know what we're doing in that department
 
Bisson820 said:
not to sound like a dink... but im really not looking for writing tips. thanks tho, i think we know what we're doing in that department
Click to expand...

Naw....I was liking what you're doing and just wanted to encourage you in a friendly way. A lot dont know......really. I'll know better in the future. Good luck with your project.
 
Try to keep anything that s bassy dead center and has you ho high in the frequency spectrum, pan them hard left an hard right.
 
Hey man, very neat track. Very Thin Lizzy.

I think overall the mix is plenty wide. Those guitars sound pretty hard left/right to me.

If anything, there's a little bit of a hole in the middle where the kick, snare and toms could get a little punchier and more impactful if you like a more modern sounding production. If not, this is pretty good.

The one instrument that doesn't have great positioning in the stereo spectrum is the hi-hat. It's a little loud and close-to-the-listener. If you mic'd it separately, maybe you could pan that track out? A little short plate verb and a shelving eq could also give it a little more distance.

If you're a fan of wide-sounding overheads, maybe try a spaced-pair setup next time? The spread on those can be very dramatic.

Overall, the impression of the track is pretty stereo, aside from the cymbals.

If anything, I'd suggest that it could go a little "taller" and "deeper" if you're after a more modern production aesthetic. If you're not after that, then this is totally fine. It kinda sounds like and authentically-old-school-production-meets-daw. In ways it's kinda refreshing!
 
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