I Totally Rule (another Variax thread)

[zacanger]

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Pardon me...just adding a few search terms...

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Carry on.

Holy Insanity, Batman!

 

[chrisharris]

Just when I didn't think this thread could possibly be anymore annoying to read, you quoted me, HAHAHAHA.

I feel pretty safe in typing anything after this point...I'm the only one who will ever see it.

 

[toyL]

... I prefer the sounds of my acoustic guitars to anything my Vax 700 will ever produce...but I cannot REPRODUCE the sounds of my acoustic guitars live, and you can't either.

Maybe you "cannot REPRODUCE the sounds" of your acoustic guitars "live" because you're not properly using (read PRODUCTION) a decent condenser-mic. That is to say--maybe you're so focused on REPRODUCTION that you've over-looked PRODUCTION. I would find this hard to believe given your level of experience and obvious playing ability. Yet another observation for you--do you really expect us to get any more than a rudimentary idea of your "live" sound by simply listening to one of your mp3s? Don't get me wrong, chris, your mp3 example has some nice enough "tone" to it; but, we're also hearing a lot of the raw artifacts associated with ADC, DAC, etc--you know--all the things associated both with digital-recording as well as whatever playback medium each of us may be using. Makes it pretty hard to hear as "live" vs. whatever we can only "imagine" as recorded. Maybe you could play a similar piece and record it with one of your good mics so we could hear the difference between it and the first piece you recorded.

 

[toyL]

BTW, for an excellent example of how "well" good'ol-fashioned microphones can PRODUCE/REPRODUCE acoustic instruments, have a listen to Nickel Creek's--"When In Rome"--recorded "live" at Bloomington's WTTS radio station.

 

[chrisharris]

Hi, ToyL.

I'm a tad confused by some of your statements:

Maybe you "cannot REPRODUCE the sounds" of your acoustic guitars "live" because you're not properly using (read PRODUCTION) a decent condenser-mic.

If you're saying that I'm not properly using a decent condenser mic when I'm playing in a bar, I'm gonna' have to agree with you there. I've tried a whole bunch of configurations from full blown large diaphram condensers to dual condenser mics mounted inside the guitar and everything in between, and feedback is always an issue, at least in my gigs. If you play in small rooms at high volumes, you really don't want to have a big old condenser mic sitting in front of your monitor...ever.

...

do you really expect us to get any more than a rudimentary idea of your "live" sound by simply listening to one of your mp3s?

I'm confused...I haven't posted anything live here. That clip that I linked to up there was recorded last night, but it was recorded on a laptop with multi-track recording software one track at a time..it's definitely not live.

Maybe you could play a similar piece and record it with one of your good mics so we could hear the difference between it and the first piece you recorded.

I have no doubt that if I mic'd up one of my acoustics right now, I'd like it better than that piece I posted. I'm always going to recommend mic'ing acoustic instruments for recording. I'm always GOING to mic an acoustic instrument when recording it...

Maybe we're talking about different things. I'd love to be able to mic acoustics for live performances just like I love mic'ing them for recording purposes, but there are very solid and practical reasons why people who play acoustic instruments out live in clubs generally have pickup systems on them. ..it ain't for sound quality.




oh, and I actually can't record anything like that clip I posted up there with a mic, because I don't have a banjo or a mandolin or a dobro...or a 12 string that I care enough about to tune, LOL

 

[chrisharris]

BTW, for an excellent example of how "well" good'ol-fashioned microphones can PRODUCE/REPRODUCE acoustic instruments, have a listen to Nickel Creek's--"When In Rome"--recorded "live" at Bloomington's WTTS radio station.

lmao...hell yes, but they're in a studio wearing headphones for monitors, right? (i.e., no feedback). RIGHT ON!!

I saw them live in Austin 2 weeks ago, and guess what type of amplification system they were all using? Hint...it wasn't microphones.

 

[c7sus]

I'm still not convinced.

You need to hear something like a Trance Audio piezo before dismissing that entire concept outright.

The Fishman/Hot Dots/etc don't really do piezo justice.




Oh, and there's nothing wrong with just playing music for the sake of playing. It's like a meditation for me. I love having a bunch of instruments to pick around on and the real-live stuff I remember from being a kid and wanting to play and rock out.

One of these days I'll post something. It's not a priority to me. The bigger priority has been getting everything here, figuring it all out (work-in-progress ), and rocking out.

Tube amps are busting my ass lately. I've got two that are down at the moment. A totally fried 1970 Twin and a Rivera with a cap going out that hisses like a bitch.

But the Leslie is rockin'!

Oh, and the 12ax7 in my what---- 3-week-old Brick went tits up too.

So analog has it's downside no doubt.

But nothing sounds like those pieces when the are in top form, either.

 

[im1ru12]

...so whatever I say, you should listen to, respect, and treat as the gospel.

This will be a long post, because I'm hoping somebody who is trying to make a purchase decision in the future may run across this and find it helpful. I really wanted to find something like what I'm about to write before I started on this musical quest.

I've been playing acoustic/electric guitar in live settings for over 20 years. I've played in bars, I've played in coffeehouses, I've played outdoor festivals, I've played in arenas... (all of those in the past 2 months, actually).

I've played with the famous and the non-famous. I've written songs you've heard on the radio. I've done one off gigs and run live sound for people that some of you would consider your heroes. I've played on live television and live radio, and I've recorded a lot. (My recordings are always going to be the weakest part of my musical life, because I didn't start recording myself until I was 30, but I'm getting less laughable in that area too).

I do all of these things because I totally rule... I am great, and if anybody here thinks they know anything more than I do about playing live acoustic/electric, I'll just point out that my 16 year old daughter has probably played more gigs than you have, even if you're 50, so stfu. I fucking rule.

So, let me get this straight:

WOW I'M HOT SHIT
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And then some other stuff about a product. Dunno, didn't read the equipment review after all that self-congratulatory horse shit. Glad to see you're so impressed with yourself. For me, all of your experience (real and/or imagined) is negated by what a self-important prick you are.

 

[chrisharris]

So, let me get this straight:

WOW I'M HOT SHIT
WOW I'M HOT SHIT
WOW I'M HOT SHIT
WOW I'M HOT SHIT
WOW I'M HOT SHIT
WOW I'M HOT SHIT
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And then some other stuff about a product. Dunno, didn't read the equipment review after all that self-congratulatory horse shit. Glad to see you're so impressed with yourself. For me, all of your experience (real and/or imagined) is negated by what a self-important prick you are.

I give you like a 6 out of 10. The effort and the attitude is there, but you kinda' totally missed the whole point of why I'm acting like a self-important prick, and really...that was the whole point.

People who know me know that I'm anything but impressed with me... I have all the self-confidence of a poodle being sprayed with a firehose - but it's cool to see that I can fake it and be believable, lol.

Have a great night!!!

 

[chrisharris]

But nothing sounds like those pieces when the are in top form, either.

definitely agreed.

I know you're a musician man . . . nobody else could be as cool as you are in the face of me being a complete and total dickhead, LOL.

 

[mshilarious]

OK, this is embarassing. I sat down to cut a comparison on my guitar between the onboard piezo and one of my oh-so-clever mics mounted on the soundboard, and the piezo shorted out. It's stone cold dead, man

However I will refer you to this RUMBLE, on the same topic. Unfortunately it was almost a year ago, so many of the links are dead. However, I've posted some of the highlights below, and even though my link is dead too , I reloaded the file and posted below.

http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=173996

here's mine, which I don't consider a highlight:

As for your Variax recording, I really only paid attention to the guitar, since I have no experience with piezos on the other instruments. I would say I think it sounds better than the average piezo, about as good as a really good piezo, not quite up to a great piezo sound (see Lawler). But then a great piezo sound is very rare.

So I could see the usefulness of the Variax if you needed the other instrument sounds, but the cost over an acoustic with a good piezo is not otherwise compelling.

 

[chrisharris]

OK, this is embarassing. I sat down to cut a comparison on my guitar between the onboard piezo and one of my oh-so-clever mics mounted on the soundboard, and the piezo shorted out. It's stone cold dead, man

However I will refer you to this RUMBLE, on the same topic. Unfortunately it was almost a year ago, so many of the links are dead. However, I've posted some of the highlights below, and even though my link is dead too , I reloaded the file and posted below.

http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=173996

here's mine, which I don't consider a highlight:

As for your Variax recording, I really only paid attention to the guitar, since I have no experience with piezos on the other instruments. I would say I think it sounds better than the average piezo, about as good as a really good piezo, not quite up to a great piezo sound (see Lawler). But then a great piezo sound is very rare.

So I could see the usefulness of the Variax if you needed the other instrument sounds, but the cost over an acoustic with a good piezo is not otherwise compelling.

I sincerely tried to get through that thread, but nobody's links work except apl's, and I honestly wasn't crazy about his piezo sound.

Lawler's piece is definitely cool, but it sounds nothing like a mic'd acoustic to my ears. It sounds like either a nylon with a piezo or a piezo amplifying some dead strings. I'm talking about the rhythm. The noodling over on the right sounds great too, but it's not a sound that I'd ever shoot for myself. It sounds like an acoustic guitar plugged into something. Some people (hell, maybe most people) really dig that "DI'd" sound, but I'm not one of them.

Ok, the "ethnoviola" thing...I'm waiting for a guitar...never heard one.

It may just be a preference thing. I'm trying to be open-minded here. I personally hate the sound of nylon strings too, so there's that. I'm not discounting your opinion at all, I'm just totally disagreeing with it. Either of the "fake" guitars I recorded sounds better to my ears than any of the piezo stuff you posted. "Better to my ears" just means "more like my steel stringed acoustic guitar when I stick a decent mic in front of it," but I'm not God and I'm pretty deaf, lol.

 

[robin watson]

By the by...it's "couldn't care less about," not "could care less about." Think about it for a minute...don't just copy what you've heard your whole life...think.

I see this "could care less" usage all over the Net. Boy those linguistic butchers.

Sounds pretty damn good for straight out of the output jack. I imagine that would be more than enough to give you a decent live acoustic sound.

R

 

[Codmate]

meh...we're getting closer to a flame, I guess...but it's still pretty lame in here. The dude's name was "MuleFan," c'mon..."horsefucker" was funny.

Don't get me wrong, guys...74 is a decent amount of posts, but I know we can do better.

Hey, here's some kindling for the fire: Last night, I spent :30 minutes recording this:

Supposed to sound like (in order):
1. 12 string
2. dreadnaught
3. banjo
4. mando
5. dobro/slide something hell who knows

THE ONLY effect I used was some verb on the slide...my timing sucks, and I don't even OWN a slide (it's a pocketknife). Anyway, my personal opinion is that each of the sounds by itself is pretty lame and I'd prefer the real deal for recording. But for live stuff, I'd be thrilled with each and every one of these tones. They're all straight from the output jack of the guitar, and I need some of you to upload clips of how your acoustic guitars sound straight from the output jack. Maybe you'll change my mind.

Thanks for the recording - yes the sounds are barely average and lack character.
The resolution is poor (not helped by the mp3 encoding) and the sound unquestionably 'digital'.
It would be interesting for you to record an expressive piece on a nicely miced up acoustic, and reproduce the performance on the Line6. Then we could judge just how big the gap in quality of timbre is more easily, as well as hearing the differences in response and dynamic range.

You're right, in that it sounds potentially better for live work through a PA than any other direct system on a steel-string acoustic. I wouldn't put this down to the Line6's quality - more the failings of other systems used to get a direct sound out of a jack on an acoustic.

From what you say, the build quality is pretty poor too.

If I did lots of live steel-string guitar work, maybe I'd be tempted to try one. Luckily I don't though. It seems that people who do this sort of work are stuck between the devil and the deep-blue-sea frankly.

Just one more question - why inject your review with so much attitude, when you could simply have posted a link to your website alongside a more sober review?

The chances are that the attitude will turn people off to your opinion rather than the reverse. I know several musicians and composers who have worked with, or who are themselves, well known. Generally those people don't have such an attitude and are often exceptionally modest.
Just an observation.

 

[Track Rat]

So Chris, tell me your opinion of the Variax?

 

[apl]

I couldn't record a fart when I was 17, so let's not run him off.

Yeah, but once got your nose far enough away from your boyfriend's anus so you could properly position a mic...

 

[apl]

...I've belonged to over the years...

AGE: 17

 

[mshilarious]

It may just be a preference thing. I'm trying to be open-minded here. I personally hate the sound of nylon strings too, so there's that. I'm not discounting your opinion at all, I'm just totally disagreeing with it. Either of the "fake" guitars I recorded sounds better to my ears than any of the piezo stuff you posted. "Better to my ears" just means "more like my steel stringed acoustic guitar when I stick a decent mic in front of it," but I'm not God and I'm pretty deaf, lol.

Sure, but how much better? It's a given a player who wants to record, or simply play in his room without amplification is gonna have an acoustic. The cost to add a piezo or other system to that guitar is pretty low. The cost to get the Variax just for a small tone advantage in a live show (where most of the audience doesn't notice or care) is quite a lot more. Unless you need the other instrument sounds, I don't see how it is cost effective.

The guitarist in my church (who is quite good) used to have one of the nicer Ovations, in the last year she traded up for a guitar made out of actual wood, still with some sort of direct system. Even though our church has a REAL PA system--by that I mean a 70V paging system built into a 20ft ceiling --the new guitar (sorry, don't know the model) sounds 1,000% better. I guarantee you she and I are the only two people in the sanctuary who realize that.

 

[apl]

I sincerely tried to get through that thread, but nobody's links work except apl's...

I am the man.

...and I honestly wasn't crazy about his piezo sound.

It's a Fishman Rare Earth humbucking sound hole pickup. I can't stand the boinginess of piezos.

 

[chrisharris]

Just one more question - why inject your review with so much attitude, when you could simply have posted a link to your website alongside a more sober review?

Two reasons:
1. Linking to my website would be useless. There's nothing on there recorded with the variax, and the only live clips on there sound like ass because they were recorded from the output jack of a NON-variax acoustic - I would hate for somebody to think that I was touting THAT sound; and
2. It made the thread longer... - I'm weird

Now, please don't misunderstand me here - what I typed is true . . . it's just that I wouldn't normally be such an arrogant ass about it...maybe only half so.