Monkey Allen
Fork and spoon operator
Man...I posted the links to the song many posts ago....I don't give a rat's ass....
Man...I posted the links to the song many posts ago....I don't give a rat's ass....
fala
New member
Your last email :
----------------------------
Thank you so much Marco. It was really interesting to see what you did with the song. I think I like the 2nd one best. I really appreciate it!
May I ask you what software you used?
I recorded the whole song in a hotel room...so it is not so great. But you worked well with it.
I think the vocal had some light compression...haha...nice work to you. He is a terrible singer!
I wish you all the best in your music life
matt
---------------------------------------------------------
this is not my bad english ....
I'd appreciate your thank you .... and your like
Monkey Allen
Fork and spoon operator
Let me be clear...I'm on Fala's side...if there are any sides....I'm on fala's...I dont care what he did to my song...I know he was never a mastering engineeer....but the cut of many thread posts is:
Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan, you aint no mastering engineer....kill yourself now for pretending to be....
And here I am laughing at it all because it's funny
Fala challenged me to post up my private comments to him in email in which I probably (I dont even recall) said something like 'fala you da man for doing that and keep on truckin'....see I dont give a rat's ass (as I said) if he can master or not....couldn't give a fuck...
So...keep going...this is awesome!
Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan, you aint no mastering engineer....kill yourself now for pretending to be....
And here I am laughing at it all because it's funny
Fala challenged me to post up my private comments to him in email in which I probably (I dont even recall) said something like 'fala you da man for doing that and keep on truckin'....see I dont give a rat's ass (as I said) if he can master or not....couldn't give a fuck...
So...keep going...this is awesome!
fala
New member
sorry but you translate fine for me last words (change easy words) gooogle translate mmmhhh thanks monkey....
Monkey Allen
Fork and spoon operator
Your last email :
----------------------------
Thank you so much Marco. It was really interesting to see what you did with the song. I think I like the 2nd one best. I really appreciate it!
May I ask you what software you used?
I recorded the whole song in a hotel room...so it is not so great. But you worked well with it.
I think the vocal had some light compression...haha...nice work to you. He is a terrible singer!
I wish you all the best in your music life
matt
---------------------------------------------------------
this is not my bad english ....
I'd appreciate your thank you .... and your like
As you can see fala..I offered you light praise...befitting of a novice...and little else. Certainly nothing to hang your hat on.
Anyway...keep on truckin...I sure got nothing against you claiming to be a mastering engineer...all the best
Keep practicing!
fala
New member
yes , of course
L
lieasleep
New member
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Notice how ever since kceral, lieasleep and one or two others came into this thread...it's turned into a Jerry Springer episode! 
Exactly.
For a guy with all kinds of "rep" points...he doesn't really know or ever contributes anything of any value AFA audio...it's all Cave related banter.
( Ooooooops...I guess that's an "elitist" comment.
but oh so true! 
)
Mmmm....thanks for your contribution.
Did you join up just for that? How positive and constructive.
Oh wait...you're one of those "lo-fi" disciples...well THAT explains it!
(Oh my...did I just make another "elitist" comment!
)
-----------------------------
So...asking Fala questions about his "mastering" skills and about his purpose on the forum, and saying his mixes were just LOUD and flat-topped and not really *mastered*...
...is considered elitist and a personal attack?
The only personal attacks are the ones being launched at Glen and me, but it's OK, we're big boys, we can handle it.
But after all the name calling and misguided newbie attitudes fall away...at the end of the day, it's still just about the audio, and nothing more.
Some of you guys forget that, and some of you just can’t deal with that.
(Oh no, another “elitist” comment!!!
)
And just to clarify for some of the misguided…YES, you have to be selective and discerning, and avoid the ever-growing urge to accept “good enough” or in many cases “half-assed” audio, which is becoming a trend, mainly fueled by lack of knowledge and the lack of desire to take the time to obtain it.
It’s not an easy path, and we don’t always succeed at our goals…but, the point is not to concede…which is what seems to be the norm for so many audio newbies...stopping short because it’s too much work to push further.
The only way to improve your audio is to reject anything sub-standard as often as possible…and YES, that means being a bit “snobbish” about YOUR audio quality!
(OMG…was that yet ONE MORE “elitist” comment?!?!?!
)
Monkey Allen...don't let them suck you into the crossfire.
I know you were just being polite to Fala...
...the reality of it is that his "mastering" does SUCK!
(
Yet another "elitist" comment....... )
PS
Where are you now if not in Australia?
PM me if you don't want it on the forum.
Enjoy the rest of your day guys…I’ve got go pick up a new guitar amp at UPS and then I have some tracking to do this afternoon.
Exactly.
For a guy with all kinds of "rep" points...he doesn't really know or ever contributes anything of any value AFA audio...it's all Cave related banter.
( Ooooooops...I guess that's an "elitist" comment.
but oh so true! )Mmmm....thanks for your contribution.
Did you join up just for that? How positive and constructive.
Oh wait...you're one of those "lo-fi" disciples...well THAT explains it!
(Oh my...did I just make another "elitist" comment!
)-----------------------------
So...asking Fala questions about his "mastering" skills and about his purpose on the forum, and saying his mixes were just LOUD and flat-topped and not really *mastered*...
...is considered elitist and a personal attack?
The only personal attacks are the ones being launched at Glen and me, but it's OK, we're big boys, we can handle it.
But after all the name calling and misguided newbie attitudes fall away...at the end of the day, it's still just about the audio, and nothing more.
Some of you guys forget that, and some of you just can’t deal with that.
(Oh no, another “elitist” comment!!!
)And just to clarify for some of the misguided…YES, you have to be selective and discerning, and avoid the ever-growing urge to accept “good enough” or in many cases “half-assed” audio, which is becoming a trend, mainly fueled by lack of knowledge and the lack of desire to take the time to obtain it.
It’s not an easy path, and we don’t always succeed at our goals…but, the point is not to concede…which is what seems to be the norm for so many audio newbies...stopping short because it’s too much work to push further.
The only way to improve your audio is to reject anything sub-standard as often as possible…and YES, that means being a bit “snobbish” about YOUR audio quality!
(OMG…was that yet ONE MORE “elitist” comment?!?!?!
)Monkey Allen...don't let them suck you into the crossfire.
I know you were just being polite to Fala...
...the reality of it is that his "mastering" does SUCK!
(
Yet another "elitist" comment....... )PS
Where are you now if not in Australia?
PM me if you don't want it on the forum.
Enjoy the rest of your day guys…I’ve got go pick up a new guitar amp at UPS and then I have some tracking to do this afternoon.
Gizzmo0815
New member
Notice how ever since kceral, lieasleep and one or two others came into this thread...it's turned into a Jerry Springer episode!
Exactly.
For a guy with all kinds of "rep" points...he doesn't really know or ever contributes anything of any value AFA audio...it's all Cave related banter.
( Ooooooops...I guess that's an "elitist" comment.
(Not really elitist...just kinda shallow.)
Mmmm....thanks for your contribution.
Did you join up just for that? How positive and constructive.
Oh wait...you're one of those "lo-fi" disciples...well THAT explains it!
(Oh my...did I just make another "elitist" comment!
(No...not really elitist either...more like...petty.)
It's only a personal attack because we all know you meant it as one.
The only personal attacks are the ones being launched at Glen and me, but it's OK, we're big boys, we can handle it.
But after all the name calling and misguided newbie attitudes fall away...at the end of the day, it's still just about the audio, and nothing more.
Some of you guys forget that, and some of you just can’t deal with that.
(Oh no, another “elitist” comment!!!
You get attacked when you act the way you do. And it appears that you accept that, so it's kind of a moot point.
No...it's not really about the audio. Unless the audio is the goal. Usually it's about the music, which in this case IS the goal. Which is why I wanted Fala or Monkey to post the mix, and then we could talk about it.
(This is pretty close to elitist, because you assume all newbies are misguided. Most are just uneducated, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't speak.)
Still not reading the thread are you. I'm pretty sure no one has said that half-assing it will make for a good recording, or mix...or mastering job. I don't know why you keep saying that.
Then let them stop short of their own accord. If they got it, they got it. If they don't, they don't. And basically.......nothing is going to happen.
You still think the music world is going to fall and fail because a bunch of people on a forum don't know how to do things right? And you think you're helping that by being a hardcase?? Well...I don't know what else to say except that I think you've got a misguided sense of what "help" is.
The only way to improve your audio is to reject anything sub-standard as often as possible…and YES, that means being a bit “snobbish” about YOUR audio quality!
(OMG…was that yet ONE MORE “elitist” comment?!?!?!
Or you could USE the substandard to learn from it...rather than reject it outright. Which is exactly what you did with Fala.
"Is it good? No? Then he's hopeless, don't even bother."
(And that was actually a pretty elitist thing to say...you nailed it.)
Monkey Allen...don't let them suck you into the crossfire.
I know you were just being polite to Fala...
...the reality of it is that his "mastering" does SUCK!
(
Great! So we've established that Fala needs some help. Now who's going to help him?
I'll try if I can. Anyone else?
(And this one...isn't elitist, it's just kinda rude...because you're not really adding anything...just putting him down...again.)
Enjoy the rest of your day guys…I’ve got go pick up a new guitar amp at UPS and then I have some tracking to do this afternoon.
Um...Congratulations!
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
I do thank you for the kind words, Gizmo; you are at least fair, and I appreciate that.
But honestly, this whole thing about me giving Fala a smackdown is just ridiculous. Saying that Fala is not mastering is not a smackdown, it's an observation of the truth. At the risk of sounding like a movie cliche, it appears to me - after five years here and NOT just this thread - that there is a considerable subset of people here that just can't handle the truth.
OK, here's an explanation of what I see wrong and how to correct it, since that's what you're asking me for. No smackdowns:
Fala offered free mastering for one song, and negotiated paid mastering for an album if you liked his free sample. There are several legitimate problems with that.
First, there is no way to tell how good or how bad his mastering may or may not be by his free sample, because there is no mastering going on. None of the things required for mastering are done in that free sample. How's that, you may ask?
The only thing he is doing is trying to complete an incomplete mix after the fact. That is not mastering. That's somewhere between talking over the producing role and bailing out an incompetent mixing engineer.
But more than that, that tells us nothing about how he intends to assemble the tracks into an album, how he will actually address the tracks as a single entity in order to get them to actually sound like a cohesive album - which is an entirely different art from simply trying to re-EQ or re-balance a single song track, and does nothing to indicate how he actually preps the package for distribution and/or duplication. In fact, according to his equipment list he does not even have the tools to perform those final very important steps that are integral to the *purpose* of mastering.
And whether he speaks the Queen's English or not is irrelevant. In those questions I asked him - which I would, BTW ask ANYONE offering mastering, free or not, pro or newb - he should have been able to recognize phrases such as PQ editing and C1, C2 and CU errors, which need no language translation and received none, (because they mean the same thing in Italian as they do in English) and probably some others that were translated well enough to understand their gist. "Ah, OK, SSG is asking me about the back end of the mastering process" should have flashed through his mind as soon as he saw those dead giveaway terms. But instead he pleaded ignorance, the only possible reason being because he has no idea yet what all that stuff actually means, regardless of any language or translation problems. Which means he his not mastering, because that is all an integral part of mastering.
And not knowing that stuff has nothing to do with skill level, because half of that stuff requires the least amount of skill of the whole process. It just requires knowing it needs to be done and having the fairly inexpensive tools that pretty much automatically do it for you. But not knowing that stuff means one is not actually offering mastering. Furthermore, claiming that fixing a bad song mix is "mastering" means that he has not yet actually learned what mastering really is; in which case the question is begged, "How can one offer what they don't even know the description of?"
Now, I don't entiely blame Fala, because there seems to be a preponderance of newbs (and even some not-so-newbs) who don't know what mastering actually means, and are operating under the misguided Internet myth that mastering is all about taking a song and making it sound good. The truth is almost the opposite; mastering is about prepping material for it's distribution without doing harm to it; i.e. riding that tightrope between making whatever changes are necessary for the final packaging of the material while trying to stay true to the producer's/mixing engineer's vision and without making it sound worse.
I don't accuse Fala of bad intent. His intent is honest, and I get that. And i really do not wish to pick on him. I am not calling him a murderer. I do however reluctantly have to call him on involuntary manslaughter on two counts: first by extending and promoting the same myth that newbs don't actually have to learn how to finish off their mixes because that is the job of mastering engineers, and second, by making it just that much more difficult for honest artists and mixing engineers to find real mastering because they have to sort through all the hundreds of faux mastering claims on the Internet first before they find the handful who actually know how to do the actual job.
As far as constructive advice? I already gave him what I considered to be the best advice a couple of times before this thread; I advised him to study up and find out what mastering actually means and what it entails before he goes public with his offer. Somehow that got twisted by the rest of you guys into giving him a smackdown. It wasn't it was good, honest advice. If a few of you don't like that, I can't help that; I think that means you guys got your own issues you need to examine, because there is nothing even close to smackdown - intentional or accidental - about that.
G.
fala
New member
L
lieasleep
New member
Notice how ever since kceral, lieasleep and one or two others came into this thread...it's turned into a Jerry Springer episode!
Exactly.
For a guy with all kinds of "rep" points...he doesn't really know or ever contributes anything of any value AFA audio...it's all Cave related banter.
( Ooooooops...I guess that's an "elitist" comment.
Mmmm....thanks for your contribution.
Did you join up just for that? How positive and constructive.
Oh wait...you're one of those "lo-fi" disciples...well THAT explains it!
(Oh my...did I just make another "elitist" comment!
-----------------------------
So...asking Fala questions about his "mastering" skills and about his purpose on the forum, and saying his mixes were just LOUD and flat-topped and not really *mastered*...
...is considered elitist and a personal attack?
The only personal attacks are the ones being launched at Glen and me, but it's OK, we're big boys, we can handle it.
But after all the name calling and misguided newbie attitudes fall away...at the end of the day, it's still just about the audio, and nothing more.
Some of you guys forget that, and some of you just can’t deal with that.
(Oh no, another “elitist” comment!!!
And just to clarify for some of the misguided…YES, you have to be selective and discerning, and avoid the ever-growing urge to accept “good enough” or in many cases “half-assed” audio, which is becoming a trend, mainly fueled by lack of knowledge and the lack of desire to take the time to obtain it.
It’s not an easy path, and we don’t always succeed at our goals…but, the point is not to concede…which is what seems to be the norm for so many audio newbies...stopping short because it’s too much work to push further.
The only way to improve your audio is to reject anything sub-standard as often as possible…and YES, that means being a bit “snobbish” about YOUR audio quality!
(OMG…was that yet ONE MORE “elitist” comment?!?!?!
Monkey Allen...don't let them suck you into the crossfire.
I know you were just being polite to Fala...
...the reality of it is that his "mastering" does SUCK!
(
PS
Where are you now if not in Australia?
PM me if you don't want it on the forum.
Enjoy the rest of your day guys…I’ve got go pick up a new guitar amp at UPS and then I have some tracking to do this afternoon.
ok... me asking you to be nice makes this into a jerry springer episode?
why did i join? to talk about and learn home recording, I got side tracked...
you make everything personal! fala obviously can't defend himself from your egotistical bullshit so someone has to. and, despite everything, you guys were being elitest. sorry!
see, the thing is. if Fala had come on here saying something to the effect of "free, high quality, perfect and flawless mastering" then yes, slam him. kill him. make him cry, if he gives us anything less. but to a guy that obviously just wants to learn. he doesn't need your elitest (oh god i said it again!) bullshit. he needs some guidance. he said and did nothing to deserve some of your posts.
I am not defending his ability to master tracks, he is not good. I will say that, politely, nicely. If I had to skills to guide him, I would. I came here to improve myself, as I am just getting started. But, as I have seen, if the senior members of his forum only have the ability to be dicks and not see a few inches beyond their own egos then this is not the place that I want to learn.
I never attacked either of you personally. I only asked you to be nice. sorry if that is too hard.
L
lieasleep
New member
well thought out and constructive
the only point that I wanted to get across is that there is a nice way to say things and a constructive way to guide someone.
oh! and before I forget. I have the utmost respect for both of you when it comes to recording. miro's songs have amazing quality and glen you put together a site that is fucking top-notch. the best thing that I have gotten since coming here is that website.
this isn't at all about recording anymore, it is how you communicate, because if you guys know so much then why be on here if not to help others out? that is great intention, and an amazing help to us newbs, but there is a way about it. all I am saying...
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X
XLR
______
Miroslav and southsideglen - IMO you've been way off base for most of this thread.
BTW, southsideglen, it's been quite a while since I've asked you directly, but is there anywhere yet where I can hear any of your tracking, mixing or mastering work?
BTW, southsideglen, it's been quite a while since I've asked you directly, but is there anywhere yet where I can hear any of your tracking, mixing or mastering work?
Gizzmo0815
New member
And that...is an awesome response.
And no...it is NOT a smackdown...it's the truth. I also think it might help a lot of people to understand what mastering truly is. Myself included. Thanks for the input.
---
Fala,
The dude knows what he's talking about. Both from a business standpoint, and a technical one.
I think probably you understand now that what you're doing is not really mastering, it's closer to mixing. And perhaps you should post some of your other products in the clinic so that you can get some more guidance on what can be done to make them better. Since you say there is a lack of audio professionals in Italy, you might just have a great niche market to take advantage of when and if you decide to continue with an actual business. It'll be a tall mountain to climb, but worth it in the end I think!
---
I only took issue with the initial reaction to Fala's lack of knowledge by some of the more seasoned members here. Like I said, I like the forum...I've been a member for a while. I just don't think it's cool when people use their knowledge as a weapon to injure the uneducated.
L
lieasleep
New member
gizmo, i like you more and more each time you post. we should go start our own forum! and there will be black jack! and hookers!
fala
New member
thanks , I will certainly take heart when the people lost.... if you send tracks again ...
masteringhouse
www.masteringhouse.com
Glen and I have issue with this one from time to time, I agree and disagree.
The better part of mastering is deciding when one should cross the line and make a mix sound "different". A mixing environment is not always setup optimally for critical listening and there could be quite a few changes with frequency balance and focus on particular parts of the mix, etc. that cross over into mixing territory. Likewise one could say that there are areas of mixing that crossover into mastering territory particularly when a mix has been overcompressed or otherwise crushed.
A mastering engineer should have quite a bit of music under their belt in a variety of styles and have both the experience and taste to know when to leave things alone, when to politely ask if a remix is possible with suggestions on what to improve, and if the former is not the case how to best improve the mixes given in order to make them translate best. It definitely means do no harm, but sometimes one can do harm by not doing anything.
Or maybe I'm misinterpreting the above. If so, where is the Google translator for SSG to MH?
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Monkey Allen
Fork and spoon operator
Notice how ever since kceral, lieasleep and one or two others came into this thread...it's turned into a Jerry Springer episode!
lol!
What is this thread even about?
miroslav...I'm in Hong Kong for a few years working...
masteringhouse
www.masteringhouse.com
About 8 pages too long.