I need some serious HELP!!!!

  • Thread starter Thread starter frist44
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frist44

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Alright...

I've been trying for awhile now to get some good acoustic guitar sounds. I currently have 2 mxl603s and 2 ecm8000s. I'm going into a delta omni studio then into cubase.

My problem is that no matter how i seem to mic the guitar, I get a weird boxiness. The tracks sounds almost sound constrained for some reason. I've tried everything i can think of from changing strings and picks, to just about wrapping myself in an egg crate mattress cover to get rid of any bad room sounds.

Here's a clip of what i'm talking about. I recorded it in stereo with 2 mxl603s. One at the bridge, the other on the 10th fret or so.

Please help, the time i'm spending trying to duplicate some clips that have already been posted with similar mics is rediculous. And i seem to get nowhere.



Please help.

Thanks~Brandon
 
Do you think it would be possible to improve the sound by subtly microphone moves?

When micing in stereo, is there a certain sound to look for through each mic? or should both just sound good when soloed.

The guitar is a dean exotica, it's not top of the line, but by no means crappy.

Thanks for the help,
Brandon
 
It does sound thin, wouldn't be too bad in a mix but by itself it's not there. It would help to know more about the guitar. Have you tried recording it with just one mic? It almost sounds like phase cancellation, as if the mics were pointed at each other.
 
I've tried one mic, i've tried two. Aside from the obvious differences they all produce that similar boxy sound no matter where i seem to move the mic.

Please anyone...I could really use some opinions

Brandon
 
have you tried over the shoulder micing? just a thought. might give you a little more of the sound your used to hearing from it.
 
Try Pointing the mic at the bottom of the neck right where it attaches to the body..... That should do it...

Oh, and throw out all them egg crates... they aren't helping anything..:)
 
I've tried over the shoulder and i've tried putting it where the neck meets the body. Both have that same boxy overtone. The neck meets the body position gives a fair amount of boom, that's the only reason i moved the mic up to the 10th fret.

Given that the sound it happening in every mic position, do you think it could just be how the guitar sounds. i mean it's no taylor, but i thought it would translate better than this.

Brandon
 
I'm going to ask a silly question, and I hope that I don't offend.

Does your guitar have "boxy overtones"? :) I've never been successful in making my cheap guitar sound better than it is.

Slackmaster 2000
 
After taking an internet look at your gear I'd try a stereo tube pre going to an analog compressor before going to the omni studio, that ought to perk things up.
 
what in the name of Prince does it mean when people say it sounds "boxy"?? I've heard that thrown around a little bit lately and I can't say that it means any thing to me. Can anyone elaborate?
 
The overall sounds doesnt seem too bad. My guess is that its the guitar, room or a combination. What guitar is it?

Jfogarty-
Boxy usually refers to a midrangy sound without any nice air or dynamic feel. Sorta like you compressed and cranked the mids. At least thats how I would describe it. It sorta sounds like your talking into a small box, hence the term.
 
JFogarty said:
what in the name of Prince does it mean when people say it sounds "boxy"?? I've heard that thrown around a little bit lately and I can't say that it means any thing to me. Can anyone elaborate?
Click to expand...

Im not sure... Maybe it means the shape of a Volvo? :D
 
I'm new here so forgive me if I do this wrong. I would try a few things. First remember you "can't polish a turd". How does the guitar really sound on it's own. Is it a deep body or shallow body. No disrespect. Second, as someone mentioned above try switching the phase on one of the mic's. Your not completely getting a phase cancellation but it is somewhat prevelent. Third the closer your mic is to the sound whole the warmer and deeper the sound until you get mud. The closer the mic is to the bridge the brighter the tone until you get just a clicking sound. I consider this method of two mics like a sudo x-over, you have a low-mid freq mic and a mid-high freq mic. You must blend them together to get the whole sound. Don't pan the stereo to far apart or it will seperate the tone and not blend. The room could have an effect on this situation. Try your same setup in the bathroom. How does it sound? Also, pull the mic's away from the guitar a little as well. See if this opens it up at all. Finaly when eq'n the two mic, they both will have midrange freq to work with. Remember the x-over therory: one has low to mids and the other mids to high freq. Roll the mids off of one or the other or a little of both. Oh yeah one other thing, try adding a slight chorus or detune effect to it. Not enough to here the twelve string effect but just enough to fatten up the sound.
 
Wow.. as a "newbie" as I guess I'm called, I just read another post by a "newbie" that was basicaly torchered. If you read my post above and feel I need not post my experiences like the other gentlemen, your welcome to say so. Trust me my time is limited and I'd rather be at the studio anyway. Your call on weather I post again or not. I am hoping to find a nice place to share thoughts on recording.

Joe
 
I've tried just about every mic combination people have suggested, they all come out with that similar kinda mid-rangy sound that i call "boxy". Sorry if the term isn't very clear, but there's the clip if you don't understand i'm sure you'll be able to hear. It sounds like that when only miced with one.

Slack,
don't worry about offending me. people have said much worse. I think it's a valid point to bring. I mean...to me the guitar sounds alright, but it's all relative. Does is sound like a taylor or something in that range? No, but if that was the case would i be posting on here, I probably wouldn't be having the troubles i am now if i could afford taylors and a bunch of other high end recording gear. I guess i just figured it was somewhat of a step up from lower level, so i figured it would translate better to tape then the typcial $200 beginner acoustic.

Everyone is talking about eq and everything. The only reason i haven't done that at all is because i would like to get the best possible i can without going to those measures. I would definitely eq on mixdown, but until, i'm gonna search for the best sound. I'm starting to think it's just a quality of the guitar, i'm hoping i can find a better guitar from a friend or something soon so i can test this theory. That's it. if you have any other ideas let me know

Thanks,
Brandon
 
It's the guitar. Really.
Try moving the mics back.
Try some EQ.
Try lighter strings.
 
Reading your earlier post you stated that you don't want to eq until mixing. Hey that's cool, but chances are you will not get a two mic setup to work with out eq'ing it. Get it close with mic movement and print it to tape. But with out eq'ing the playback you will be overlaping a large section of the tone in the midrange. Mid range is what is giving you the boxxy tone quality.

Just try EQ and see if you can make it sound like what you want. THen look at the EQ section and see what is the most used freq's. Now try to adjust your mics to limit those freq's or increase them as needed.

When I record acoustics I try to get the best tone posible on tape, which includes EQ and very slight compression. IT's easier to mix with this way. When you go to mix you just need to make the tracks fit or sit into the mix and not try to create somthing that isn't there.
 
I guess it's mostly the guitar, so i'm just gonna live with that fact and try to make it as best as possible.

Joe E,
Thanks for the info. the thing is i don't really have any means of eqing before the computer because i don't have an external mixer. Actually, i do have a mindprint envoice and i could do it on there, but sometimes it seems like its hard to hear what's really how things change in the headphones, i just have record clip after clip and listen to the difference. Oh well...

Has anyone been able to record acoustic and get a sound that you're happy with just because of the qualities of the guitar. I just want to make sure that it's something that i can improve with something like the guitar and not totally unobtainable with my setup.

Thanks as always,
Brandon
 
Brandon,

My two cents: I've never recorded an acoustic guitar without tweaking it first with a pre/onboard eq. I know there are professionals who know what combination of a mike/mic (the new, politically-correct use of the short version of a microphone) and placement can get a great sound without eq, but I'm not one of them.

Bodhisan
 
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