how would you recommend i mic my kit with these mics?

[crustycrunch]

i'm trying to get the BEST sound possible out of my drum kit... a DW 7 piece.

These are the mics that I have. any placement suggestions would be welcome:

[3] AKG C-414
[1] AKG 451-B
[1] AKG D-112
[3] Sennheiser 421-II
[3] SM-57
[1] SM-58
[1] Royer R-122

I have a Mackie 1642 VLZ Pro mixing board, two Behringer multicom pro XL compression units (four inputs), one Behringer composer pro (two input) compression unit... and a MOTU 2408 MK-III going into my computer.

I'm thinking about getting a Focusrite Octopre so I can use more mikes, and then hook that into the MOTU with the ADAT optical card.

I use the behringer compression units as insert's on each channel. i'm just wondering what the ideal mic placement and compression settings would be. any help is greatly appreciate!

 

[Han]

Kick: D112
Snare: 57 top (58 bottom?)
Toms: 421
Hi hat: 451
OH: 414 (2x)
Room: C414 and R 122 as an MS pair.

 

[Mark7]

Kick: D112
Snare Top: SM57
Snare Bottom: C451-B
Toms: MD421s
Overheads: C414s
Room Mics: C414 and R122 in MS array.

 

[Mark7]

ALTERNATIVELY

Snare Top: SM57
Snare Bottom: C451-B
Kick: MD421
Rack Toms: SM57s
Floor Tom: MD421
Overheads: R122 and C414 in MS array
Room: C414s (spaced omnis)
Bass Amp: D112
Guitar Amp: MD421
Scratch Vocal: SM58

Nice!

 

[crustycrunch]

excuse my ignorance, but what is an MS array?

Right now this is my setup:

sm57 top of snare
sm57 bottom of snare
d112 & 421 in the middle of the kick drum through the hole in the front
451-B over the hihat (with 150hz bass rolloff enabled)
two 421 on the first two toms
two 414 in XY overhead (with 150hz bass rolloff enabled, cardiod pattern)
one 414 over the ride (with 150hz bass rolloff enabled)

then the r122, sm58 and sm57 micing the marshall cabinet (around 2" from the mesh), each mic on a seperate speaker.

all mike's then go into my mackie 1642's XLR pre's, then i have inserts on each channel ... each channel goes into a behringer multicom 4 channel compression units.. (i have two of them) then into my MOTU 2408 MK-III.

thinking about getting the focusrite octopre so i can use all the mics plus more to mic the bass rig.

 

[Mark7]

Okay. What you do is you take a mic with a figure 8 pick up pattern (like your Royer, or a C414 set to fig 8 ) and you send it to two channels of your mixer using a Y cable. You then use the phase invert button on one channel (usually marked with a O with a line running through it) to flip the phase of that channel. That's the "Side" mic. The "Middle" mic can be any of your other mics in cardioid mode.

 

[Mark7]

excuse my ignorance, but what is an MS array?

Right now this is my setup:

sm57 top of snare
sm57 bottom of snare
d112 & 421 in the middle of the kick drum through the hole in the front
451-B over the hihat (with 150hz bass rolloff enabled)
two 421 on the first two toms
two 414 in XY overhead (with 150hz bass rolloff enabled, cardiod pattern)
one 414 over the ride (with 150hz bass rolloff enabled)

then the r122, sm58 and sm57 micing the marshall cabinet (around 2" from the mesh), each mic on a seperate speaker.

You're recording Metal, AREN'T YOU.


Bleurgh.

 

[crustycrunch]

HAHAH. Not even close

I'm trying to set up a nice little system so i can record jam sessions... we play funk/jazz/hiphopy/rock type stuff. whatever the mood.

You're recording Metal, AREN'T YOU.


Bleurgh.

 

[Mark7]

Okay, sorry. I just saw the three mics on the amp thing and instantly thought of Metal (bleurgh).

 

[Richard Monroe]

Yo Crusty!- I think Han and Mark7 are pretty well spot on. That MS thing is called mid-side mic'ing, Do a search on it. After I tried all the complicated stuff you guys are doing, I wpuld also try some minimalist mic'ing. I am not convinced that more mics= better sound. I would try:
overheads- C414X2 as a spaced pair
snare- MD421
kick-D112
Then I would slide the third 414 padded,in figure 8, between the snare bottom, the kick and the rack toms to pick up all 3 and stop. You have some very nice mics. You should invest that kind of money in preamps.-Richie

 

[Mark7]

Richard has a point there. Indeed, for jazz I'd just use the Royer and a C414 (or a pair of C414s) in that MS array (plus the D112 or an MD421 in the kick IF NECESSARY). I'd also question the need to have three mics on one cab.

 

[crustycrunch]

it's probably the worst room possible for recording, but i gotta make do with what i have... moving to new place in 6 months though!

still waiting from some more sennheiser 421s and the focusright octopre.

basically i want to be able to record 18 channels of 96,000 at once (11 for the drums, 3 for the guitar, two for the bass and two for the triton studio).

 

[crustycrunch]

what kind of preamps would you recommend? i'd rather not buy one avalon per mic. that's a little much

Yo Crusty!- I think Han and Mark7 are pretty well spot on. That MS thing is called mid-side mic'ing, Do a search on it. After I tried all the complicated stuff you guys are doing, I wpuld also try some minimalist mic'ing. I am not convinced that more mics= better sound. I would try:
overheads- C414X2 as a spaced pair
snare- MD421
kick-D112
Then I would slide the third 414 padded,in figure 8, between the snare bottom, the kick and the rack toms to pick up all 3 and stop. You have some very nice mics. You should invest that kind of money in preamps.-Richie

 

[Mark7]

Erm...


What we said about room mics.

Forget it

Use the pres you have. And ask yourself if you really need to use that many mics.

 

[crustycrunch]

heh... i figure the only chance i have of getting a good sound is by close micing the most used parts of the kit. i dont think better pre's would make a difference right now

Erm...


What we said about room mics.

Forget it

Use the pres you have. And ask yourself if you really need to use that many mics.

 

[Han]

Oops........didn't mentioned that MS will only work in a good sounding room and drums need a lot of space to sound good.

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

With all that nice gear you really need to think about getting a better space. Everything is so super crammed that achieving any kind of isolation is going to be impossible (except on the KB direct parts... I'm sure the monitors will bleed through stuff).

Try putting the bass and guitar amps in different rooms and running cable out to them, get a headphone mix going on.

That more than any gear will improve your recorded sound immensely.

And instead of preamps, I'd focus on getting a better mixer with nicer preamps built in and (most importantly) MORE CHANNELS. You guys have a lot going on at once.

 

[crustycrunch]

what's a great mixer?

With all that nice gear you really need to think about getting a better space. Everything is so super crammed that achieving any kind of isolation is going to be impossible (except on the KB direct parts... I'm sure the monitors will bleed through stuff).

Try putting the bass and guitar amps in different rooms and running cable out to them, get a headphone mix going on.

That more than any gear will improve your recorded sound immensely.

And instead of preamps, I'd focus on getting a better mixer with nicer preamps built in and (most importantly) MORE CHANNELS. You guys have a lot going on at once.

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

what's a great mixer?

Based on what you're doing you need to look into a 24-32 channel mixer, 8 bus if you can swing it. A Soundcraft or Allen & Heath mixer should do pretty good for you.

BUT, don't bother with the mixer until you get more room. It won't do much good until you can isolate the instruments more.

 

[crustycrunch]

sounds pricey heh. and the pre's on those suckers sound like liquid gold?

Based on what you're doing you need to look into a 24-32 channel mixer, 8 bus if you can swing it. A Soundcraft or Allen & Heath mixer should do pretty good for you.

BUT, don't bother with the mixer until you get more room. It won't do much good until you can isolate the instruments more.