How to make toms cut through mix?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Seafroggys
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Seafroggys

Seafroggys

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I'm going to be starting a project pretty soon, and something I have noticed from when I've recorded before is that while my drums sound great by themselves, when you introduce other instruments things start getting messy. My toms literally melt into music. They lack definition. Cymbals and snare are really easy, and I have to be careful how I mic up my bass but I can make that work.

The problem is is I don't have tom mics, I just have a 4 mic setup as follows:

Bass: AKG D112
Snare: SM57
Overheads: 2x RODE NT2-A Microphones

As I said, soloed the set sounds great. However, my toms lack cutting power and seem to melt in the same frequency as the guitar. Several options I can think of:

Replace the heads (last resort that may or may not fix anything)
Tune the heads higher
Play with mic positioning some more
Heavily EQ guitar (though this won't work as the fundamentals and the toms share the same range)

Right now I have a +2 dB high shelf above 5000 hz on the overheads to bring out the cymbals. I'm wondering if this could be lowered so that they start affecting the upper frequencies of the toms and bring those out into the mix?
 
This might be a long shot, but you could try copying the overheads into two separate tracks. Then, EQ everything but the toms out of those, maybe add a little compression to bring out the THWAP of the toms, and then adjust accordingly?

I've done that once or twice before and it had decent results. I guess it depends on how well you tracked them too.
 
depends on how you play them too, and how busy the mix is.

if the toms are not close mic'ed, good luck trying to get them to pop out of a busy mix.

how do you set up the overheads? glyn johns set up might help, it will definitely pick up more of the floor tom than a typical x/y pair over the kit.

New heads never hurt, its always a good idea to throw new heads on a kit before a recording session.maybe a drummer can recommend heads that are louder/brighter, or help the drum project better.
 
My mics have been a spaced pair. I think I just have to play around it a little more.

I'm using Coated Emperor heads right now. Maybe (if I were to replace tom heads) ambassadors might work better.

The mix for this project will be busy, but the other recording I made (where I came to this original conclusion) was just a guitar and bass. That's it.
 
The easiest way to do it is to hit the toms harder. The Glyn Johns setup will help, but if you still have a problem, you aren't hitting the toms hard enough.

It's up to the drummer to mix himself to a certain extent. John Bonham only had 3 mics, and he didn't have any problem with the music swallowing up the toms.
 
True.

I hit my snare plenty hard, it is noticeably louder than my toms. I'll try balancing everything better.
 
And as above the Glyn Johns or recorderman method will help.
 
There is something to be said for tuning the toms higher as well. I listen to everything (all tracks) together and then have the drummer make tuning adjustment so the frequencies don't walk on each other. I find that drummers almost always have the toms too low. Sounds great by themselves but they get eaten up by the bass and some guitar. I also like the copying the tracks and re-eqing idea.
 
That's true, if you tune the toms low, you need to close mic them. You need to add a bunch of high end to the close mic'd toms for them to cut.
 
Hey Seafroggys, you here? :P

You could try the recorderman technique. In previous recordings, I've tried several mic placements, but I got the best tom-sound using the recorderman technique. Also hitting your toms as hard as your snare should help a lot.
 
or you could add a few tracks on your daw, and mic the toms, and go over dub them in...
just make sure you know how you played them, and get the speed right.
 
CasB said:
Hey Seafroggys, you here? :P

You could try the recorderman technique. In previous recordings, I've tried several mic placements, but I got the best tom-sound using the recorderman technique. Also hitting your toms as hard as your snare should help a lot.
Click to expand...

haha hey!

Yeah I recorded a bunch today, laid off the snare a little and really wailed on the toms. I also tried a different overhead approach, really brought out the toms more. The hats are a bit quiet as a result, but I can live with that. They really remind me of the Mitch Mitchell tom sound, though not quite as highly tuned.
 
Try some heavy limiting on the overheads. That will help even things out.
 
I've begun recording, and have been getting good results. More a matter of mic placement than anything! My hi-hats are now a little weak though, but I think that's manageable!
 
What exactly would be wrong with micing the toms instead of the overhead. Ive done it, and I (and many others) dont seem to have a problem. Sorry I just had to throw this question in here.
 
# of mics and type of mics.

I don't really have any good tom mics, and I only have two other mics aside from what I'm already using (an Audix i5 and a Sennheiser e609).

Close micing the toms with my RODEs is just asking for trouble.
 
The cheapest and easiest improvement I've found so far is switching to heavier sticks.
Physically mounting the toms higher helped a little too.
 
Seafroggys said:
I don't really have any good tom mics, and I only have two other mics aside from what I'm already using (an Audix i5 and a Sennheiser e609).
Click to expand...

these would work. i'd do the 609 on the top and the i5 on the floor. do a low cut and blend the toms in. if you have more than two toms putting a mic in between two toms can help as well.

ambassadors instead of the 2 ply heads can help too...more attack...but then it might not be the sound yer looking for...

good luck.
Mike
 
another trick that i haven't seen mentioned would be to record some samples of your toms, then paste them in on another track to augment the toms hits in the OH's
 
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