How important are microphone preamps to a home studio?

  • Thread starter Thread starter BIGTYME
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People are simply never happy when they ask a question and you tell them the truth. What they are really looking for is an excuse or justification to buy new toys. For that reason, I am reversing all my prior opinions. From now on, I will recommend the EAR 824.

The EAR 824 as the only preamp that really will capture they "crystalline purity" and "sparkling warmth" necessary for pro-level recordings. The EAR 824 provides the perfectly balanced juxtaposition of brooding intensity with just a hint of pesky insouciance, sure to give your recordings that extra magic.

http://www.mercenary.com/ear824dualmi.html

Remember: If you don't buy it, you know exactly what to blame when your recordings sound "amateurish". I never actually heard one, but I read the specs, and a really important guy in the music industry gave it a great review.
 
Ford Van's recordings sounded ok to me. If I don't have to dump a ton of dough into preamps that is good news. Maybe I can get by with my DMP3 and Presonus Digimax FS.
I always thought that once a preamp reaches the point of useability, it can be worked with. i.e., not too harsh, not too noisy, no obnoxious buzzing, etc.


Let me take this in a different direction.....

If preamps are not a big thing to a home recordist, what is? Mics? Room treatment? A decent EQ? Compressor?
 
To Mr van:

Tell me my critiques aren't dead on.......you didn't address any of them. You just called me a tool.

Just because someone doesn't record(yet) does that eliminate them from having opinions on sound and being correct?

Because you don't do it your ears mean nothing. How ignorant are you? So my 35+ years in the business playing gigs, doing live sound, guitar repairs and building them, not to mention building tube amps means nothing.

If Clive Davis hears your stuff and says it sucks he doesn't know what he's talking about because he never recorded, he just produced, he's not an engineer.....What if Patti LaBelle said your stuff sucked, it means nothing because she probably doesn't know one end of a board from the other, right.

Dude, I know what I hear. And I hear distorted overdriven vocals were they should be crystal clear for that type of music. No excuse for overdriving a gain stage on a vocals. If you were recording a guy who wanted to sound like Elmore James in the 1950's then it would be something you would want to do. But I don't know nothing, right.

Every band you recorded sounds the same, every recording I checked out sounded the same....LMAO.

If I'm a tool you are the piece of female anatomy the tool goes into.

I said I'm new to recording not music. I have recorded in the 80's but don't have anything to show for it. Lost the masters years ago because it really didn't sound all that good. The engineer sucked and so did the drummer, yet it almost got me signed to Alligator records.....hmmmm.

I listened to your other stuff and everything sounds the same. Dull, overly compressed and uninteresting.

How many years have you been doing this. I hope not more than 3 or 4.

In other words you suck!!!!!!!

But your ego won't allow you to admit it, you think you're great. If you would take a step back and critique your own stuff in an honest way, you would be inclined to improve your results. But you are at the pinnacle of greatness as an engineer......NOT.

I've heard 50 years old stuff recorded on 2 track tape that sounds better.

All your stuff sounds overly compressed and unnatural.

I had my own live sound company...I think I know a thing or 2 about how something is supposed to sound.

When I start recording I will post it.

One thing I did learn, when you put your stuff out there be prepared to get it critiqued. If you can't handle constructive criticism you're in the wrong business.

Your stuff sounds OK but very amateurish. With the equipment you probably have a more talented engineer can probably do much better.

Can I do a better job? I have no idea, but I hope so. If my stuff sounds like yours I know enough to give up because I don't have good enough skills and hearing to be a recording engineer or work harder at it until I do.

But I forgot you're great and can't improve because you're beyond needing any improvement.

What an A hole.
 
Sonixx said:
I kindly ask that you remove the picture.
Click to expand...

You know, you can set up your profile so that avatars, signatures (and Ford Van's picture) don't even show up in the threads when you view them. I do that and it makes things load much faster and I don't even notice stuff like this. That's why it took me a minute to figure out what you were talking about. Just a thought. :)

Cheers,

Otto
 
ofajen said:
You know, you can set up your profile so that avatars, signatures (and Ford Van's picture) don't even show up in the threads when you view them. I do that and it makes things load much faster and I don't even notice stuff like this. That's why it took me a minute to figure out what you were talking about. Just a thought. :)

Cheers,

Otto
Click to expand...

I do on other forums but haven't here. I think I will. Thanks for the reminder.
 
Preamps are pretty important...try recording without one.

I think even the cheaper ones like the DMP3 are perfectly capable of great, pristine sounding recordings. It's when you start getting into the real expensive ones, that they will actually add their own color or sound to the recordings, or qualities such as smooth, warm, round, etc.

The DMP3 is pretty transparent. Which means your source needs to sound really good. This includes room treatment, a good instrument and performance. Room treatment is extremely important and I would personally put it as a higher priority than a good preamp. Others may disagree.
 
Sonixx said:
Good, now that you're finally in a good mood please answer a very simple question...

WHY DO YOU RIDICULE DOWNS SYNDROME?

I kindly ask that you remove the picture.
Click to expand...

Apparently Ford Van thinks it's funny to mock people who have Downs Syndrome. I suppose he thinks it confers intellectual superiority on him, in comparison.



Fuckin' hilarious.
 
To my ears......... Ford Van's recordings sound awesome.

If I could acheive that level of recording / mixing skill...... I would have accomplished one of my life's goals.

I really can't hear anything wrong with them - keep up the great work!


BTW..... I have the ART TPSII...... have you ever used it ?
 
Big Daddy said:
To Mr van:

Tell me my critiques aren't dead on.......you didn't address any of them. You just called me a tool.

Just because someone doesn't record(yet) does that eliminate them from having opinions on sound and being correct?

Because you don't do it your ears mean nothing. How ignorant are you? So my 35+ years in the business playing gigs, doing live sound, guitar repairs and building them, not to mention building tube amps means nothing.

If Clive Davis hears your stuff and says it sucks he doesn't know what he's talking about because he never recorded, he just produced, he's not an engineer.....What if Patti LaBelle said your stuff sucked, it means nothing because she probably doesn't know one end of a board from the other, right.

Dude, I know what I hear. And I hear distorted overdriven vocals were they should be crystal clear for that type of music. No excuse for overdriving a gain stage on a vocals. If you were recording a guy who wanted to sound like Elmore James in the 1950's then it would be something you would want to do. But I don't know nothing, right.

Every band you recorded sounds the same, every recording I checked out sounded the same....LMAO.

If I'm a tool you are the piece of female anatomy the tool goes into.

I said I'm new to recording not music. I have recorded in the 80's but don't have anything to show for it. Lost the masters years ago because it really didn't sound all that good. The engineer sucked and so did the drummer, yet it almost got me signed to Alligator records.....hmmmm.

I listened to your other stuff and everything sounds the same. Dull, overly compressed and uninteresting.

How many years have you been doing this. I hope not more than 3 or 4.

In other words you suck!!!!!!!

But your ego won't allow you to admit it, you think you're great. If you would take a step back and critique your own stuff in an honest way, you would be inclined to improve your results. But you are at the pinnacle of greatness as an engineer......NOT.

I've heard 50 years old stuff recorded on 2 track tape that sounds better.

All your stuff sounds overly compressed and unnatural.

I had my own live sound company...I think I know a thing or 2 about how something is supposed to sound.

When I start recording I will post it.

One thing I did learn, when you put your stuff out there be prepared to get it critiqued. If you can't handle constructive criticism you're in the wrong business.

Your stuff sounds OK but very amateurish. With the equipment you probably have a more talented engineer can probably do much better.

Can I do a better job? I have no idea, but I hope so. If my stuff sounds like yours I know enough to give up because I don't have good enough skills and hearing to be a recording engineer or work harder at it until I do.

But I forgot you're great and can't improve because you're beyond needing any improvement.

What an A hole.
Click to expand...

LOL....buddy, when you have ANYTHING that you have engineered up for me to listen to, let me know.

Until then, you are just another dumbshit with an opinion who I don't bother reading.

I was PAID to work on those recordings. The client walked away VERY HAPPY with the results vs what they paid (and it wasn't cheap because I work cheap, it was cheap because I can do that good FAST, and with crappy gear!).

http://www.phoenixlightandsound.com/Audio/HeavyBrothers/
http://www.phoenixlightandsound.com/Audio/SkyBlueMind/

There is some stuff that you can hope to one day, if you work REALLY freakin' hard, hope to begin to rival the sound of. ;)

Big Daddy. LOL Big Dumbass.........
 
They actually paid you...LMAO.

At this point if you presented me with that crap I would have paid and never used you again.

You are a typical egotistical prick, one that I have encountered in the music business and now on the Internet.

You think so highly of yourself......that's a good thing it's always good to have a high self-esteem even if it's not deserved.

But you can have a high self-esteem, yet still be humble.

If you want to see a man who was a great engineer, yet was humble about it, watch the DVD about Tom Dowd.

I don't know if I can ever reach the quality of engineer you are, but like I said, I hope so and I think in time I should surpass it depending on time and equipment available to me.......my time is running out.

Your responses are typical of an blowhard, over inflated ego.

You still do not address the issues I brought up about your recordings.

Sorry guys, if you can't hear what I'm talking about then you must really work on your ears.

I have been doing live sound reinforcement since the days of Tapco and Kelsey boards, Perkins bins and Crown DC-300 power amps.

I know what things are supposed to sound like. Anybody with ears can listen to a quality well produced recording and if blessed with descent ears should be able to A/B them and see yours does not measure up.

But it's not only in the engineering were you fall short. It's the production.

Though you did answer one question why your stuff sucks.

You did it fast and cheap, that means zero production. You recorded what they played and that was it.

What you have is not a finished product, it is not produced. It is just a recording of musicians playing, very good musicians I might add.

You do need work on your engineering skills, they are good but need refinement.

So far you have Zero production skills as far as I can hear. You did nothing in terms of a final polish and artistic statement to bring the music up to a higher level, did you?

If you know about the music industry the producer and engineer are not the same person in most cases. The engineer does get points on the contract but does not produce it. In lower level recordings they usually are the same IF the artist doesn't know his way around a studio or is short on money.

I found this out working on a band as a teenager with Adrian Barber, look on the back of a Cream album with Eric Clapton. I was a little starstruck but that wore off quickly. Also running short of money on my demo's back in the 1980's.

I think you're getting there but really do need some work on your skills and need to lean how to finish a product. Honestly you're not that bad of an engineer but nowhere near as good as you think you are.

If you really think I'm a dumbass that's fine with me, it means nothing. But be honest with yourself and look in the mirror, you know I'm right.

It looks to me that anybody who thinks your work is good knows what they are talking about and anybody who critiques you does not. A smart man does not pay attention to who says what, but what is being said.

Just because a person is well renowned, it does not mean they know what they are talking about. And conversely just because a person might not know anything their words might have the sound of truth because their opinion is not prejudiced by their own egos.

What you are missing is that I am a "LIVE" sound engineer.......not a recording one. Plus I never called myself an engineer, I always used the word technician because I do not have a degree in engineering. What they hand out now and call you a sound engineer is a joke. In the past you would have to completely understand AC-DC theory, design and build your own equipment like Bill Putnam. It was Tom Dowd's idea for the slider type of potentiometer to be used on boards.
 
I was PAID to work on those recordings.
Click to expand...
For that reason alone, you are my hero ! :D

I am serious. Anybody that can actually make a living doing this stuff desrves a certain level of respect.
 
Alright, alright. As much as Fordvan's work pales to my own ... and as much of a jerky the guy is ...


... Big Daddy is just such a moron, I can't take it any longer. Learn to write a full paragraph! Next on the list, try engineering something yourself before you criticize other people's work. Finally, all the name-dropping is driving me almost as nuts as the one-sentence paragraphs. Who gives a crap who you know, or how many nonname record labels you were "almost" signed to? Or how many halls you "almost" played .... how many album covers you were almost on the back of ... how famous you almost were, or how many writing classes you "almost" took? :D

Jeezus. Someone more retarted than Fordvan. Up until now, I didn't even think it was possible.
.
 
The Axis said:
For that reason alone, you are my hero ! :D

I am serious. Anybody that can actually make a living doing this stuff desrves a certain level of respect.
Click to expand...

His work may deserve respect, but certainly not his caustic demeanor and disdain for the less fortunate.
 
People don't like when someone comes in and disrupts their little world. They tend to stick together when one of their own gets attacked, even if that person is disliked.

The truth is something that is always hard to deal with.

My points are misunderstood and nobody has tried to answer my critiques about Mr Van's work.

Maybe if you explain how he got the vocals to distort I can learn how not to do that. I would guess at one stage they peaked out and needed less gain or some type of limiting, am I correct? Some vocalists have improper mic technique or they have trouble adapting to the studio. Isn't that correct? A little help in the way of a peak limiter would make up for improper technique at the mic or with breath control.

But I forgot, I don't know anything.

Not to mention I'm a moron and a dumbass and I drop names(too prove a point a hole).

I'm new to this and I admit it, some of you should too and let your ego's match your expertise, another missed point. We're all just people.......another missed point.

My way of writing is easier to read quickly for this type of venue by the way. People lose interest in what you are saying quickly when the paragraphs are too long and it takes too much time to get to your point.

I think I'll move on from here. I've been to forums that have a few members that are put on pedestals and get very nervous when someone comes along and starts sawing away at one of the legs. They usually follow the same patterns and act in similar manners. One is the overinflated ego and sense of self worth being higher than others. I'm seeing it here....

If anybody knows of a forum with down to earth non egotistical people who will help a neophyte please contact me. I came here to learn about recording, not what not to do and not have to deal with a person who shows such contempt for a person with other knowledge to offer and the handicapped with his offensive avatar.
 
Hey Big Daddy......


Despite this argument, welcome to the BBS. Hope you stick around.

These kind of arguments seem to happen within the bbs, probably about every 50 threads or so.

(Right or wrong, I've been in some pretty stupid thread arguments myself - usually defending my opinion. )

Regardless, it's worth sticking it out. There is a wealth of information here, and hopefully this 1 thread gone wrong won't discourage you from hanging out.

You and Ford Van could easily find yourselves in agreement on some other issue in some other thread.

Sometimes threads go really wrong, really fast.
 
Are you guys talking about HeavyBrother ?

I don't hear vocal distortion (don't have great ears for fine detail yet).

Is there a certain area in the song where the vocal distorts ?


I can hear no particular difference in the quality of this recording, than any other commercial recording I've ever listened to.

I think it sounds incredible.
 
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