How important are microphone preamps to a home studio?

  • Thread starter Thread starter BIGTYME
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Um, I think everyone would agree that the preamps in say, a SoundBlaster card are pretty much worse than anything even Behringer makes (or not?). But with a great sounding source in a good room, the recording will still sound good.

Not as good as if you had used a cleaner signal path like a DMP3, or maybe even a really expensive pre, but it will still sound good.
 
Hey - screw you man, Sound Blaster Pre-amps rock..... I've been using them for 45 years..... what have you ever produced? Huh? Nothing. I rock and you suck.

uh........ oh sorry, I was just trying to keep to this thread's overall argumentative vibe.........


danny.guitar said:
Um, I think everyone would agree that the preamps in say, a SoundBlaster card are pretty much worse than anything even Behringer makes (or not?). But with a great sounding source in a good room, the recording will still sound good.

Not as good as if you had used a cleaner signal path like a DMP3, or maybe even a really expensive pre, but it will still sound good.
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Fishmed_Returns said:
Those found on a Behringer... :eek:
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I admit I avoid Behri pre's. But I have tested them and while they may degrade the potential quality more than most, it's still possible to get a good sound through them given a good source, room, the right mic.

IME, using low end gear takes much more effort to dial in a decent sound, and the limitations on how the gear is used is much greater.

I find it ironic, actually, that I'm arguing for cheapo pre's, since my overall stance is that it's worth it to invest in high end pre's.

I've got an old tiny Behri mixer with 2 preamps on it packed away somewhere. Heh, if I find it I'll track something with it and see if it still can sound good or not. ;)
 
I think there's kind of a bare minimum that you kinda' need to shoot for.

Up to a certain point the mic pre isn't going to be as pivotal ... but come on, guys. Behringer? Art?

Gimme' a fuckin' break. As long as you're not using mic pres that are complete dog shit ... they shouldn't be holding you back. Behringer? Art? Dog shit.

.
 
We're not talking about a pre just holding you back. Sure, some pre's will degrade the sound. We're talking about a pre making a track inherently bad sounding. I say no.
 
XLR said:
We're not talking about a pre just holding you back. Sure, some pre's will degrade the sound. We're talking about a pre making a track inherently bad sounding. I say no.
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Well, duh. I mean ... if the pre is complete dog shit, then yea, it's going to be a spoiler.

But true dog shit pres are actually kind of rare; with Behringer and ART certainly being two that would qualify for that honor.

:D
 
Hey Chessrock,


ART offers around 11 different pre-amps right now.

Behringer offers 6.

That's 17 pre-amps.


With no disrespect intended, I'm wondering how it is you have tried every single one of them ?

Or is their something common among all of them that makes them all dog shit for the same reason ?





chessrock said:
Well, duh. I mean ... if the pre is complete dog shit, then yea, it's going to be a spoiler.

But true dog shit pres are actually kind of rare; with Behringer and ART certainly being two that would qualify for that honor.

:D
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chessrock said:
Mediocrity is pointing at your gear as the culprit ... or thinking that spending money on something is the answer.

Greatness is owning up to your responsibility; holding yourself responsible for getting good sound ... rather than pointing at the gear as either the scapegoat or as the panacea.

.
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daaaang!..I'm going to make this my new signature!...if it'll fit!:)
 
mattkw80 said:
With no disrespect intended, I'm wondering how it is you have tried every single one of them ?

Or is their something common among all of them that makes them all dog shit for the same reason ?
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Well, basically anything by Behringer is going to be complete shit.

And the ARTs that I am specifically refering to are the $30 toys that you can get on clearance from Musicians Assclowns or whatever. Those Tube MP thingies ... as those are the ones that we've been talking about ... only for like the entire thead up to this point. :D

.
 
I kind of have to say this about the behringer mic200. I was able to get a certain bass sound with it that was used in the early 70's. I could not with a sans amp which was touted as being able to get it.

As a DI I was able to get the P bass and farty amp sound when you kind of turn up an Ampeg SVT or V4B, even the B-15. For some reason they fart out a certain way that the MIC200 was able to do. Since I go direct and can not mic a bass amp, I record in my bedroom in an apartment house in new york city.

I could not get the same sound from the SOLO 610 I have.

My point is that certain things even though they are crap, you can get something out of them. It may be only one thing, but that one thing is usable and important.

I use cheap guitars for slide, they sound better for slide then an expensive guitar. In fact the Duncan pickups in the guitar cost more then the guitar, they are Fender Squier 51's I got for $99 each. I would use them to play but they make some awesome slide guitars, along with my Dan electro.

I think the whole thing really is having as many options as possible and knowing what every one of them is best suited for. Like a certain mic will sound better with a preamp that might cost a grand less, it's just the way it is.

That's why I ask about pres because I know that each one will sound different under different conditions.

Having as many flavors and choices and knowing how to use them is the way to go. Not only as you record but in the final mix. Like choosing the right mic for certain vocalists, then the best pre to get the best sound and so on. It's all about the chain.

That can be said about the guitar, pedal, amp speaker chain. The mic, board, processor, box, speaker in a sound system. So recording is no different in that particular equation. Knowing that equation gives you the best knowledge of your palet as an artist, that's the engineering artist interface.
 
Got ya.

I really wasn't trying to be a smart-ass on that.

I thought there was some technical thing at the heart of them that wasn't right.

I guess I should save my "what makes a good pre-amp, a good pre-amp" quesiton for another entire thread.






chessrock said:
Well, basically anything by Behringer is going to be complete shit.

And the ARTs that I am specifically refering to are the $30 toys that you can get on clearance from Musicians Assclowns or whatever. Those Tube MP thingies ... as those are the ones that we've been talking about ... only for like the entire thead up to this point. :D

.
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JuliánFernández said:
Dude, can you share the chain used on drums for those sessions?
Drums sound great!
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That was done over 6 years ago. I can remember some, but not all.

Kick - RE 27n/d to ART
Snare Top - Some GT mic to ART.
Snare Bottom - can't remember mic, Alesis console preamp
Toms - I think the two rack toms were 57's and the floor tom was a 421, all going to Alesis console pres.
Overheads - A pair of 4033's to an ART

I recall there being a room mic, but I don't think I used it in the final mix. Because of the short ceilings, we had the "overheads" out in front of the set, actually BELOW cymbal height.
 
Thanks FordVan! The band is tight...
This inspire me to bring my new 20" bass drum to the studio a do some recording... I´ll post samples...
 
I forgot to mention that they were tracked to ADAT XT's, then digitally transferred to Black Face ADAT's (that is what my studio had for mixing...the tracking studio had the XT's, but only 2...:( ...thus, the 20 bit recordings were truncated to 16 bit)
 
Set up times: I was given exactly ONE HOUR on three different sessions for drum setup. It was a ridiculous budget they had, about $6k total, for the CD. :( So, not much time to work with anything. I went with what I knew would work well, but there were some things I would have liked to work on.

Hard to say though if the drums COULD sound much better in the basement they were in. The low ceilings, coupled with HEAVY hitters like the two guys that played on that CD, don't make for the easiest recording to do!
 
Big Daddy said:
I kind of have to say this about the behringer mic200. I was able to get a certain bass sound with it that was used in the early 70's. I could not with a sans amp which was touted as being able to get it.

As a DI I was able to get the P bass and farty amp sound when you kind of turn up an Ampeg SVT or V4B, even the B-15. For some reason they fart out a certain way that the MIC200 was able to do. Since I go direct and can not mic a bass amp, I record in my bedroom in an apartment house in new york city.

I could not get the same sound from the SOLO 610 I have.

My point is that certain things even though they are crap, you can get something out of them. It may be only one thing, but that one thing is usable and important.

I use cheap guitars for slide, they sound better for slide then an expensive guitar. In fact the Duncan pickups in the guitar cost more then the guitar, they are Fender Squier 51's I got for $99 each. I would use them to play but they make some awesome slide guitars, along with my Dan electro.

I think the whole thing really is having as many options as possible and knowing what every one of them is best suited for. Like a certain mic will sound better with a preamp that might cost a grand less, it's just the way it is.

That's why I ask about pres because I know that each one will sound different under different conditions.

Having as many flavors and choices and knowing how to use them is the way to go. Not only as you record but in the final mix. Like choosing the right mic for certain vocalists, then the best pre to get the best sound and so on. It's all about the chain.

That can be said about the guitar, pedal, amp speaker chain. The mic, board, processor, box, speaker in a sound system. So recording is no different in that particular equation. Knowing that equation gives you the best knowledge of your palet as an artist, that's the engineering artist interface.
Click to expand...

Just about any piece of equipment can find use somewhere in the studio, if nothing else for scratch tracks, but as your main mic pre that is going to be used multiple times, I think you need to have something clean that will have little build up of unwanted frequencies. That pre does not have to be the top of the line, just not crappy. Once you have a decent mic pre, then you can make the BIG decision of what mic to use. Of course if you have multiple good pres, you can choose which one fits the mic best.
 
C'mon.
THis is an argument for arguments sake isn't it?
Such things as are at issue are matters of (in decending order of relativity) a) economics, b) education c)taste and d) snobbery.
I use what I can afford & use it whilst saving up for something better. I actually like A LOT of the stuff I use.
Also, some things are situationally appropriate. A 4 track cassette can capture an excellent and well arranged piece with a well thought out recording sequqnce (& a good piece, performance, etc).
The best gear, with the greatest engineer, the worst band & the cruddiest song will only get you a cleanly recorded bit of doggy doo doo.
Remove the greatest engineer and you get even worse.
Simple tools in hands that know them and how to use them will produce craft &/or art.
And other such homilies, homespun thruths, 1/2 truths and urban myths ( though I've always liked an urbane miss myself).
 
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