How DO YOU mix?

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DaveCNewton said:
Anyone have any tips on getting the Kick/Bass pulse?? The problem i've been having is that the bass frequency's dominate the mix, so when there is a lot of instruments the bass gets drowned out, but when the next quieter section comes in, the bass seems very loud and prominent.

At the moment I've followed the general trend and introduced the drums and bass first, i know there isn't a strict rule, but what frequency's should the kick and bass guitar occupy specifically? i think i dip the bass at about 200hz and raise a little at 200 for the kick, along with a slight boost right at the bottom end of the scale for power.

It still doesnt seem to glue!
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First there's generally some room as to where the kick and bass will fit relative to each other as well as if one will extend or dominate and define a little more the bottom. They can just as well share at times, but obviously the feel tends to push punctuated vs. a more legato low end. Decision one -per song often.

Then there is the cleaning up of the low and mid bass range -as needed to allow that range to be defined (your choice here, controlling density and definition', or just as valid- let it fill up some and enjoy a bit of the chaos.
It seem to me mostly when that has been worked out the volumes and relative appropriate tones get easier to figure out, and maybe don't have shift' problems from one section to the next.

Last thought. I get complementary eq and all, but my guess.. 9 times out of ten, on most all of the instruments I'll pull down where it's sticking out or inappropriate first, but almost never replace that cut with a boost somewhere else as some mater of course. Why? Was there a deficiency in the kick track? 200-400 is the spot (if any where), almost anything is game for clean up trims.
Hope that adds.. :D
 
mixsit said:
First there's generally some room as to where the kick and bass will fit relative to each other as well as if one will extend or dominate and define a little more the bottom. They can just as well share at times, but obviously the feel tends to push punctuated vs. a more legato low end. Decision one -per song often.

Then there is the cleaning up of the low and mid bass range -as needed to allow that range to be defined (your choice here, controlling density and definition', or just as valid- let it fill up some and enjoy a bit of the chaos.
It seem to me mostly when that has been worked out the volumes and relative appropriate tones get easier to figure out, and maybe don't have shift' problems from one section to the next.

Last thought. I get complementary eq and all, but my guess.. 9 times out of ten, on most all of the instruments I'll pull down where it's sticking out or inappropriate first, but almost never replace that cut with a boost somewhere else as some mater of course. Why? Was there a deficiency in the kick track? 200-400 is the spot (if any where), almost anything is game for clean up trims.
Hope that adds.. :D
Click to expand...

Good points, i actually went back and solo'd the kit and the bass on a track I'm working on. I heavily compressed the bass so that the tone before EQ'ing would be balanced. When EQ'ing just kick and bass it's so much easier to try different things. I managed to get good complimentary settings for them both.

I think sometimes i look at numbers and just follow my logic, I get what they say about Mixing being an art form now though, I'm gonna keep experimenting and thanks for your reply!
 
kcearl said:
side chaining, and forgive my explanations they arent always the greatest, is when you have something like a kick track controlling the compression on the bass track...so that every time the kick hits is compresses the bass for that short instant...making itself heard better

if you adjust it correctly its all but unnoticeable, or you can make it pump if you want it too...I use synth leads compressing pads so that they can be heard clearer as well....you could use it with a lead guitar over a string section if its getting a little crowded, its not just electronica or bass and kick related

I think just about every DAW will let you automate all the perimeters of compression....so during a chorus you could adjust them to make a bass fat and pumping then softer during the verses...something along those lines and a little more soundshaping rather than just a volume automation
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Cubase is pretty nifty for side chaining. So say if i put a select few sounds through a buss with a compressor on it, then send my kick to the compressor's sidechain on that buss, that should work?

I find also that i automate volumes alot to cope with loud and quiet sections, would you say that automating a compressor would sound more natural? (Sometimes i think the volume changes are un-naturally noticable)

Cheers
 
DaveCNewton said:
Cubase is pretty nifty for side chaining. So say if i put a select few sounds through a buss with a compressor on it, then send my kick to the compressor's sidechain on that buss, that should work?

I find also that i automate volumes alot to cope with loud and quiet sections, would you say that automating a compressor would sound more natural? (Sometimes i think the volume changes are un-naturally noticable)

Cheers
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Im not the most experienced mixer Dave but Im loathe to put a compressor on any bus as I think it is so track specific

again im not sure of what your experience level is so sorry if this is a bit layman's..but I duplicate my kick track say, i put a compressor on the bass, activate the sidechain on it, then route the extra kick tracks outputs to that compressor...the just adjust the ratios etc to a level i want...there's no extra volume for the duplicated kick because its output only goes to the compressor...how much id want a pad effected would differ..a pumping bass can sound cool but a pumping pad is a bit of an uncontrollable quantity

and yes in certain instances I think an automated compressor can sound more natural than a volume automation on many sounds...unless you are really zooming in on detail

imho of course


one thing as well is many people forget that they can also automate the EQs parameters...being able to make small cuts on EQ during busier parts can also help tracks sit in the mix.....just remember not to do anything unless your ears tell you too...the voices in my head tell me to do loads of things


kill the neighbours
kill the neighbours
kill the neighbours
 
DaveCNewton said:
..I find also that i automate volumes alot to cope with loud and quiet sections, would you say that automating a compressor would sound more natural? (Sometimes i think the volume changes are un-naturally noticable)

Cheers
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Ah yes! And automation pre or post compressor/insert. Two very valuable styles of leveling (..three including automation vs not compressing.
..oops, four- bus' compressing.. :D

..a whole shit load of different flavors there aye?:D
 
Maybe obvious but I think the sounds themselves have alot to do with the blend. A punchy kick works good with a deep bass, while a growling bass works good with a deeper kick. I dont feel there's anyone specific range, bass instruments go from 30hz up to as high as 4-6k. Kick is less of a range but its really where you find they sound best.
 
I have no idea what sidechaining or automating is


or I might do it, but don't know I'm doing it
 
BLP said:
I have no idea what sidechaining or automating is


or I might do it, but don't know I'm doing it
Click to expand...

no you'd know, you have to actually do it lol


look up your daw and sidechaining...most come with a sidechain plug in....generally you'll find some tutorial online or on youtube, epecially with Ableton

automation is just automating say the reverb in a track...drawing a line that controls when it increases or decreases in level for example, again read your manual you'll have that ability as well within a modern daw..

dont worry, i see you are asking a lot of questions and trying to absorb quite a bit of information...the most important thing just now is to get a hang of the basics...there is absolutely no point in sidechaining a compressor if you dont know how a compressor works, or what the different parts of it do to affect your music

no harm in generally knowing but its the basic stuff you need to practice first, and that takes a while..probably ongoing for years to get good at it...well im hoping it doesnt take too long as im still learning :)
 
+1 for sidechaining a compressor for bass using the Kick as a trigger. its not just for drum & bass and dubstep, if you're subtle with it, it can work almost anywhere.

I just found I can sidechain compress only certain frequencies using my C1 compressor plugin with it's EQ filters engaged
I've been using just compression sidechained to the kick to compress the bass for a while as KC Earl mentioned earlier but this could open a whole new world of possibilites like just reducing the low end of the bass when the kick hits but leaving the string attack/sanp alone.
Could be great.......or just make everything sound terrible.

I think it bears a little expermentation though to find out
 
you were the one that turned me on to it a while ago...now i even side chain my wife so i can hear the TV :D
 
kcearl said:
you were the one that turned me on to it a while ago...
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Oh yeah I forgot about that, glad it's working out for you

kcearl said:
now i even side chain my wife so i can hear the TV :D
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Unfortunately my wife is not compatible with waves plugins so I have to use live volume riding using the remote. I have to be carefull to avoid clipping (around the ears from the missus)
 
Pretty good read with my sunday morning breakfast beer :)

If anyone remembers the original post, I tried recording my own band over the past couple of years while having other bands in and I always found the other bands I was recording/mixing sounded way better.

I think the reason behind that was when I have other bands in I've either never heard them before or only been to see them play live once or twice to get a feel for their sound before I have them in the studio.

It's a difficult task mixing your own stuff because you know the music so well and have a pre concieved idea in your head of how it should sound and if you don't have the equipment or the skills to take it there it's a fail.

I'll go get another beer and let you all get back off topic again :D
 
Back with a beer (10:05AM)

So yeah, get as many bands in as possible and take the money off them and use that cash to take your own band to someone elses studio and let them do the donkey work.

Problem solved

(blech):drunk:
 
@kc Ive been recording for about 6 years with no help but only bout to be 22 years old so those first few years don't count lol i was just wild with my effects but just this last year ive been digging deep in the info on mixing. ..... so I catch on and learn a new skill very quickly
 
Something that I struggled with was "what volume are we mixing at?". I even set up a Radio Shack dB meter at one point (was useless).

My setup now: I use a Roland SC-8850 sound module for most of my sounds. The master volume on the SC-8850 is set to full. The default volume of a drum MIDI track is 100 (that's CC# 007). That goes into my mixer, and currently I'm back to using 2 DMP11's and the volume of the drum channel is full on. The volume of the mixer is full on. The volume of all the busses on Cubase is zero. Up to that point there are very few variables.

Then I go through a homemade passive box that has a huge Noble detented and numbered volume pot on it. That's where I change my listening volume, it goes to the monitoring amp and then speakers. Because it's passive there is no change in tone like you have in most active volume stages. That knob was the biggest thing that I got control over my studio volume with, and it was free. That is gold!

That's just how I do it. My point is that somehow you need to get a handle on "what volume is it now?". Otherwise your ears will be subject to all kinds of psycho-acoustic factors. You run it soft one day and the bass will seem wimpy. The next day it's louder and the bass is too much.

The main thing I would say is to try to eliminate variables in where you think the playback volume is. I listen at all kinds of volumes, but I can put a number on them and return to them on another day.

I still use masking tape and pen marks on some volume pots. I've used heat glue to hold some volume knobs in place. Nothing worse than finishing mixing something and then realizing that some knob on a synth was 1/2 way... no wonder it sounded funny.
 
Ok about this side chaining malarky, using cubase (5) how would I set this up, it sounds like This might be worth a try, However I use Addictive drums for my drum tracks so it may not work to well. Also when automating the compressor to a provide a smooth transition for volume. would that mean automating the threashold or mix/dry?

Maybe the most noob question of all time! So. . . it matters what plugins go on what insert? I just assumed that if you have a reverb>eq>compressor all those would be on the track. missed out the fact hat the eq would be EQ'ing the reverb and not the compressor. . I must be so stupid.

Another thing. lets say the master buss is averaging at -1db then an electric guitar is added through the course of the song, would the aim then be to keep the master at around -1? turning down the other parts to make room for the electric guitar so there isnt such a large volume change, and shift of the mix? not talking about keeping everything so tight concerning the whole loudness war thing.

I have 100's of song recorded, ive never been able to get around the mixing part, sorry if I dont seem that clear in my questions:)
 
OK first of all


click here


:D


ask yourself...do you need to sidechain? is the kick or bass drowning each other out?

if not why do it?

also you should be mixing so that your master bus is around -12db and peaking at -8db (just and example) not -1db..there is no headroom there...you bring up the loudness in a separate project

do you know how the different parts of the compressor effect your music before you sidechain them?


Nothing wrong in experimenting and learning as much as you can but you are learning to run before you can walk maybe and will probably do more damage to a mix than good..

volume, eq, reverb, delay should be all you need to make a mix sound good...the rest is added goodies imho

buy and read "mixing audio" by Roey Izhaki before you record another 100 songs ;)
 
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