How do I set up my rig?

[Aguilar]

My guitarist has an unnecessarily complicated rig. His rig (including signal chain ) is:

Schecter Guitar -> Hughes & Kettner Tube Rotoshpere -> Morley Expression Pedal -> *Mesa Triple Rectifier Amp -> EFFECTS LOOP -> Rocktron Voodo Valve -> Rocktron Multivalve -> Line 6 Echo Pro - > Line 6 Filter Pro -> Aphex 204 Aural Exciter -> Back to Mesa

*We're still not sure whether we want to go to the Mesa and use the effects loop, or go straight into the effects first then end up on the Mesa. I would much rather go to the Mesa first, but its difficult to try to get the effects sounding as present, clear, and good through the effects loop.

One of his friends had previously installed this in a weird way. He had the (L) outputs from each unit going to the Rane mixer and the (R) outputs from each unit going in the input of the next unit, i.e., the Voodo Valve's Left output went to the Rane mixer and Right output went to the input on the Multivalve.

Here are my concerns:
(1) MIDI - Can his roland floorboard control all of this units? Can we program it so that one patch uses one effect from one of the units, and another might use one effect from three units? I presume this can be done, but how do we do this? Do we have to use MIDI THRU on the other units?

(2) Is there any way to avoid daysi chaining the signal? To clarify, I presume it would be more desirable to have the original signal divided into four signals to go into each input, kinda like what a splitter would do, rather than having the signal carry over into each unit from the previous units output. How do the pros do it?
(3) Finally, does he really need all this crap. I'm of the opinion that there is too much overlapping. I think he should get rid of at least one of the Rocktrons, and maybe both.

I've attached pictures to give you a visualization.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Aguilar]

Here's the floorboard

 

[moelar2]

Interesting...Too bad there aren't any replies yet. I'd like to know how the pros handle this situation...

 

[Outlaws]

Interesting...Too bad there aren't any replies yet. I'd like to know how the pros handle this situation...

Use what a bunch of net nerds tell you. Thats beginner.

Use what sounds good to you. Thats pro.



Exerimentation and finding something good. Thats innovation.

 

[moelar2]

and for everything else, there's mastercard??

I tend to give people in this forum a little more credit that merely "net nerds." Many of these people are in fact "pros" and have much experience and information to be shared.

That said, one could really spin their wheels with this issue if there is no guidance or direction. there are too many variables here; 4 units, midi, audio, signal path, etc...

Main Questions:

1. Effects loop or not?
2. Is there a unit that functions as a splitter for four or more units so that the signal doesn't pass in and out of four units. I'm under the impression this will cause some degree of cumulative sound degradation
3. Do these particular units overlap too much?

 

[Outlaws]

I guess my main concern is this....

Does the guitarist have a problem with his set up?

I was in a band once (first practice I should note) where I brought a Digital Delay (you know, its adds a hint of depth if used properly) and it was like when it came out of my bag the whole world stopped and it was like, "oh. You like Pink Floyd?"
"No. why?"
"Just curious."

Upon further conversation I found out they didn't like "fake" sounds. Whatever that means. Thoses Crate amps were fake sounding compared to the Marshall I lugged over there.


My main point is that the impression I get is this guy doesn't like his guitarist set up. Personally, ya, I think there is an awful lot of shit listed there that I don't even know wtf it does. And probably wouldn't use it even if I did. But its not for us to decide.

 

[Aguilar]

Sorry for not clarifying...I'm working with my guitarist to fix this issue. When we started playing together I noticed that his gear wasn't connected in a way that made much sense. I've re-connected everything and it sounds much better. Now all we have to do is re-dial the midi and patches. Since I'm in the process of doing this, and since he's given me carte blanche with his rig, I thought it'd be prudent of me to do some research on it... I'm not a guitarist, but I do have some understanding regarding signal chain and all that stuff.

I just want to know if there is a better way to hook these 4 effects units up...the best way to maintain the signal's fidelity.

 

[Outlaws]

Sorry for not clarifying...I'm working with my guitarist to fix this issue. When we started playing together I noticed that his gear wasn't connected in a way that made much sense. I've re-connected everything and it sounds much better. Now all we have to do is re-dial the midi and patches. Since I'm in the process of doing this, and since he's given me carte blanche with his rig, I thought it'd be prudent of me to do some research on it... I'm not a guitarist, but I do have some understanding regarding signal chain and all that stuff.

I just want to know if there is a better way to hook these 4 effects units up...the best way to maintain the signal's fidelity.

LMFAO.

My apologies. I guess its normally taken as a give that if a guitarist has that much equipment and a Mesa to boot, that they know what they are doing. But it sounds like he doesn't.


What I am about to tell you will take ruffly a full night to do properly give the ammount of equipment.

Take everything out of the path. Go guitar to amp. Get it to sound good.
Leave those settings and do not touch for the rest of the night.
Start adding items one at a time both before the amp and in the effects loop. Find out how they sound.
Then start adding two items together in any possible configuration you can think of.

(are you guys bored yet? this should have taken about an hour because so far I see guitar and amp, guitar/effect/amp, guitar/effect in loop/amp, guitar/effect/effect2/amp, guitar/effect/effect2 in loop/amp, guitar/effect1 and 2 in loop/amp. guitar/effect2/effect1/amp, guitar/effect2/effect1 in loop/amp, guitar/effect2 into effect1 both in loop/amp.)

Now continue on with the rest of the effects.

About this time you should be able to figure what effects are not needed based on a strong apprehension to adding them in the chain becuase you have 100 things on your mind that are better to do than this. *Note that you should let your guitarist pick what gets added first as subconciously he will add the most important stuff first. These are the must use items. When he cracks (stay strong it will be boring as fuck for you too after a while), you know what he doesn't need. Inform him that selling all the remaining items will pay for one very, very nice _________.

Enjoy.

 

[Monsoon]

Awesome response, Outlaws.

 

[Aguilar]

Ha Ha Ha!

Yea, I'm bored already just thinking of it. So I guess there is no magic box that does all this for me. Shit!!

Okay, well great suggestions. Thanks for your input.

 

[Kore]

When dealing with a ridiculous number of FX, a bypass box is key. Or at least helpful. Johnny Greenwood from radiohead just uses the basic Boss Line selector,which can be used to power a number of 9v effects like a wall wart.

 

[Aguilar]

I think I finally found what I need.... I need a programmable router/switcher. The ones I'm looking at are the Rocktron Patcher or the Voodo Labs Switcher...

What do you guys think? Any experience with these??

 

[sile2001]

I'm going to throw my $0.02 in there and tell you that unless you really know how to work it, and use it VERY sparingly....go ahead and throw that aural exciter out now. It's most likely doing nothing but killing the sound with needless processing.

As to the rest of it....well how do you answer whether it is too much? It's too much if there's stuff in the chain you don't ever use. It's too much if there's a big-ass complicated piece of equipment that you use only one setting on. I use a lot of effects in my signal chain, and actually it's even crazier than your guitarists chain. BUT I've put in the hours of trial and error to find out what order works best for me, and I took the time to find out how each and every setting on each and every device affects my sound. Damn it took a long time, but damn it was worth it.

 

[Aguilar]

You know, I feel the same way about the Aural Exciter. how do you suggest I explain this to the guitarist. The person that initially installed his rig brainwashed him pretty good. When i tell him that the aural exciter is not going to do much, he's going to ask "well, why? he told me..."

Any suggestions on the switchers..

 

[dirtythermos]

Tell him that the aural exciter might make his guitar sound better when he's practicing by himself, but when he plays with other instruments, in the band, it will make his tone suck.