How big problem would my room shape make a.k.a should I invest on a studio or not?

S

supercolio

New member
Hey!

I'm not sure should I post this here or to the newbie section, so I'll start from here, mods may move this if they feel the need

Long story ahead.

I am a 17-year-old student from Finland, I'm currently studying in a high-school and in my so-called "freetime" I study about studio technology and audio production. I've been seriously considering audio production as an option for my further studies, and since I'm a musician, I feel this is the right way to go.

I turn 18 next spring, which means bigger chances for getting a job -> money to spend on a studio. Currently my setup consist of a Fasttrack Pro and a decent HP laptop with Reaper. Yeah yeah, I know, still a very generic setup. So far I've ran my guitar and bass straight to the interface and tried to make something that would sound decent with little to no success. Thankfully I have a friend who shares same interests and he has lent me his SM57 (getting even more generic!) so I've got little experience from that. Also, I have a class in school which is about "Audio production and live mixing" . Best freaking class of all time. There's a studio/school complex right next to my school so we've worked there. Lovin' it. Too bad it ends in two weeks, I've learned so much from there.

3TMko.jpg
This setup kicks ass, doesn't it >_>

So now to the point: I've done some calculations and if I get a decent job next summer, I'll have around 1.5k€ to spend on a bedroom studio (is this even realistic?). The work I would do would be a) learning to record, mix and produce guitar and bass + vocals and b) do some little demos for either my or other local bands.

Great and all, but there's one thing stopping me from making all this reality: my room.

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As you can see, my room's not all that big, it has a diagonal ceiling, it has too much freaking stuff in it, the closets take about half of the room (doors must be opened sometimes). Also, this is the only personal space I have in our house. We live in a town house, so it's possible to set up a non-permanent recording spot somewhere outside my room. Without even being here, you can see how acoustically challenging space this room is. I noticed today, when playing bass-heavy music (I don't do that often) and at the same time walking around my room, I had more than 3 completely bassless dead spots. The sound is uneven in my room anyway. If my room was a true rectangle I could get away with some mild acoustic treatment, but now that the ceiling is not straight, I'm not sure if it's even possible to monitor here.

pZIdf.jpg
The ceiling. What an angle.

Can any of you tell me what options I have? I have a strong (or at least above average :rolleyes:) passion in music and working with audio and technology, so I would really like to start studying this field for real.

As far as budget goes, I already said I have max. 1.5k€ to spend. This would include at least monitors, one or two mics (80% chance of getting a SM57 for chirstmas, I'd like to have a mic for vocals and acoustic guitar (Rode NT1-a, maybe?), cables, stands, headphones, some software (superior drummer 2 and buy my daw, reaper is the most realistic way to go, with pro tools 10 my budget would explode) and the things I've forgotten. As for acoustic treatment, no more than 3-400€. 1.5k is already the absolute maximum, and I can't afford more. By that time I'll have a car to take care of.

All suggestions are welcome, thanks in advance.

- J-P

Ps. I could've done my physic and math homework by now, but I wanted to browse net for studio knowledge. Hah. :cool:
 
There is a way to acoustically treat your room with satisfactory results.Actually,sloped ceilings can be a benefit to a studio if constructed and acoustically treated properly.I was going to attach a few PDF files on the topic but the lame restriction on file size for a PDF on this forum prevented me from doing so.However,I have included some pictures that show some possible considerations for you to utilize in your space,Also,check out the 'Primacoustic' site as they offer some great products and solutions as well.

Remember,sloped and peaked ceilings must be treated as to control the apex or top flat portion as to eliminate unwanted standing waves & flutter echo that would otherwise reflect off of the sloped portion of the ceiling causing interferance at the monitoring/listening postition.

As for your future gear selection,...well that is such a subjective topic.Ask 10 questions and you'll get 100 different answers.So here's mine,...If you are considering doing everything on computer go with the Protools Digi 001 or 002.These systems are great and provide you with 24 tracks.The preamps in the units are very good also.You can pick up one of these on ebay for $300-$500US.Another great product I would recommend is the Yamaha 01V digital mixer.They are rock solid and provide the flexibility of also incorporating your DAW into the recording process.The Rode NT1 is also a good choice when considering a large diaphragm condenser mic with a cardiod polar pattern.I own four Rode mics and they all sound fantastic.

Primacoustic Acoustic Solutions23-lrg[1].jpg24-lrg[1].jpgsoshughfoamsceiling.l[1].jpgsospaulfoamsbehind.l[1].jpgsospaulfoamsmonitors.l[1].jpg
 
Thanks for your answer! I'll check primacoustics out, seems like a great option. A bit too expensive too, but we'll see. As for your gear suggestions, I'll see what the prices are and how they fit in my budget. :) Yamaha is, without a question, out of my range. I'm also considering building some of the acoustic elements myself.

I gave my room a thought this morning, and figured out if I move my guitar hooks somewhere else and fit my table against the lower wall, I might get a nice usable space. Also, I could build a small vocal booth in the corner where my bookshelf is now. Possibly. Maybe. Don't know yet :p

Thanks!
 
Do a lot of reading before buying anything. I see a lot of acoustic foam in RollTape's pictures. This is almost guaranteed not the way to go. The bass traps shown seem to be too small (thickness) to be effective. read all the threads here about building your own bass traps from 2x4s and insulation. Chances are you'll be moving in a couple of years and can take bass traps that are hung non-permanently with you.
You sound like you've got some knowledge already and a decent budget. Can't go wrong with an SM57 or the Rode mic, you can get by with the interface you have now, instead invest in good monitors, pay for Reaper, and SD (I use Easy Drummer as it was in my much-smaller budget). You'll eventually want a bigger/better interface, but wait until you NEED more inputs/preamps. You don't need a mixing desk now.
Extras's - mic stands, cables, pop filter
 
Man, that's alot of foam.

Like MJB said, do a lot of reading and don't be impressed by pictures. Stay away from foam, even if the company trying to rip you off calls it "acoustic foam". There's no such thing and foam shouldn't be the main material in any sort of room treatment.
 
mjbphotos said:
Do a lot of reading before buying anything. I see a lot of acoustic foam in RollTape's pictures. This is almost guaranteed not the way to go. The bass traps shown seem to be too small (thickness) to be effective. read all the threads here about building your own bass traps from 2x4s and insulation. Chances are you'll be moving in a couple of years and can take bass traps that are hung non-permanently with you.
You sound like you've got some knowledge already and a decent budget. Can't go wrong with an SM57 or the Rode mic, you can get by with the interface you have now, instead invest in good monitors, pay for Reaper, and SD (I use Easy Drummer as it was in my much-smaller budget). You'll eventually want a bigger/better interface, but wait until you NEED more inputs/preamps. You don't need a mixing desk now.
Extras's - mic stands, cables, pop filter
Click to expand...

You're right, I've done some research already and I'm moving in a couple of years (when I finish high school and army). You're really good! I don't need a bigger interface because I won't need more than two inputs. When I do, I might get one with 8 or more inputs (to record drums etc). As far as monitors go, I'm considering Genelec 8020a's, as they are told to be really great (for the price). 700€ for a pair is quite a lot, but when you think how much you need them, you just can't skip them. Thanks for mentioning SD, I have to get it. TBH I've used a pirated SD2 for some time, and it didn't work that well with Reaper... Yeah I know, poor man's solution. Recently my computer reset itself so I lost everything from my hard drive so I don't have it anymore... I will buy it for real though. Such a powerful piece of software.



RAMI said:
Man, that's alot of foam.

Like MJB said, do a lot of reading and don't be impressed by pictures. Stay away from foam, even if the company trying to rip you off calls it "acoustic foam". There's no such thing and foam shouldn't be the main material in any sort of room treatment.
Click to expand...

This is new to me. I've thought foam is (at least partially) the way to treat your room... If this is true (which I have no reason to doubt), I might just aswell ditch that freaking huge foam package off my list. I shall DIY my way through this! Loving it!

Thanks a lot!
 
All good information, what type of music are you doing will determine your approach. Are you going to sequence drums or have drums play, are you going to DI your guitar etc or play it mic'ed? I don't much in the way of bass traps etc in my studio and it sounds ok, I use an electric drum kit and play through superior drummer with logic 9. I di all the guitars etc. For my vocals I have a thin cupboard that I have treated the inside of and it opens up and and a flap lifts out, it does the trick and looks like nothing when standing there closed.

Do a heap of research get ideas etc. You seem to have a good budget and all, I still use welcome mats as dampener and bass traps they work really well for me but they have to be thick, they are the ones you get out the front of the house when you arrive to wipe your feet on. I picked up ten for $2 each and they work really well, just have to keep cleaning up or put them in pillow cases.

If you are going to spend money anywhere please do so on leads, can not tell you enough how important good quality leads are. If you have cheap leads you introduce all sorts of problems with power grids in your home, radio waves, phone signals and just the power in the room and your computer. Reaper is great and yep I would consider to use that, I started with that and it is fantastic if you paw for the full version that should be good until you can get something more robust.

Good luck.
 
supercolio said:
This is new to me. I've thought foam is (at least partially) the way to treat your room... If this is true (which I have no reason to doubt), I might just aswell ditch that freaking huge foam package off my list. I shall DIY my way through this! Loving it!

Thanks a lot!
Click to expand...
It's a popular mis-conception, especially to people just starting out. Foam is just a little less useless than egg crates, carpeting and whatever else people improvise with. You see, 99% of the problem in 99% of rooms is controlling bass. Foam and those other materials is not dense enough to trap bass, no matter how thick it is. So, yes, you end up with a "deader" room and at first you think that's great. But all you did was kill your high's and mids. So now, low end is 100% of your problem and everything sounds "box-y".

You need to use the proper materials, like rigid fibreglass or something similar. Cover as many corners as possible, including wall/floor and wall/ceiling. But, at the very least, start with the 4 corners of the room.

Once you've taken care of the low end, then you can use a piece of foam here and there if you feel you want to tame same reflections. But, honestly, there's very little use for foam.

Read as many threads as you can in the STUDIO BUILD forum. There is a lot of great information to get your head around.
 
RAMI said:
But, at the very least, start with the 4 corners of the room.
Click to expand...

How should I approach my room when, after I've moved my desk, I have only one corner that is treatable? You see, I can't really move my bed, so I can't put anything to that corner. I'll remove my bookshelf and use that space to create a "vocal booth". Maybe I could hang a board higher in that corner. The corner right next to my door; can't do anything. Only the corner where my desk is at is treatable.
 
supercolio said:
How should I approach my room when, after I've moved my desk, I have only one corner that is treatable? You see, I can't really move my bed, so I can't put anything to that corner. I'll remove my bookshelf and use that space to create a "vocal booth". Maybe I could hang a board higher in that corner. The corner right next to my door; can't do anything. Only the corner where my desk is at is treatable.
Click to expand...

I wonder if the bed will act as a sort of bass trap in some way? That would be a happy accident. And it beats sleeping on mineral wool or rigid fiberglass. Does anybody know?
 
You need to move your set up out of the corner, first and foremost. Center your monitors against the diagonal wall, pushed as far back as you can go. Move your bed to the corner where the bookshelf is currently. You do have more than 4 corners in a room too - and you actually can trap the bottom corners of the room, as well as the angled corners. I would suggest treating your first reflection points above, and behind you first and foremost, and bass trap the possible corners. Like the angled wall and ceiling corner, and the floor and front wall corner.

No, beds don't effect bass response much at all. If anything, they are a mid-trap.
 
GIK Acoustics said:
You need to move your set up out of the corner, first and foremost. Center your monitors against the diagonal wall, pushed as far back as you can go. Move your bed to the corner where the bookshelf is currently. You do have more than 4 corners in a room too - and you actually can trap the bottom corners of the room, as well as the angled corners. I would suggest treating your first reflection points above, and behind you first and foremost, and bass trap the possible corners. Like the angled wall and ceiling corner, and the floor and front wall corner.

No, beds don't effect bass response much at all. If anything, they are a mid-trap.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the response. I didn't even consider the angled corners. I have to do something to them, too. I'm currently drawing my room in SketchUp 8 (3D modelling software) and doing some plans. I'll post some pictures of it here in near future.
 
Okay! So I've done #1 plan of my room. This is how it looks like in its glorious cubic shape:


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So guys, does anyone have some thoughts about this? Remember the wall which isn't visible has a window, so if the 1st reflection hits it I will have some problems. Anyway, ideas?
 
Hey you did a good job drawing the room up! If you'd like, you can send me the sketchup file and I can show you where I'd place the absorbers in that room.

The first reflection points and corners are the most important, so you should really think about that in placement. First reflections on the ceiling, sidewalls, and especially behind you (since the distance is so short). The corners are important as they are typically the best place for absorbers in a room to absorb low frequencies.
 
Thanks GIK, I sent you PM :)

Yeah, I have to take care of the reflection points for sure. Monitor placement might be crucial here.

Oh man you guys here are so awesome! Can't thank enough.
 
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