Help! Your recommendation for THE MOST ACCURATE headphones.

  • Thread starter Thread starter clubzero
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Well as a hacker who owns somewhat mediocre monitors and phones, I'll add my two bits.

1) I have my monitor speakers (Yamaha) hooked up along side a pair of basic consumer stereo speakers (KLH) so I can switch between them. I like to be able to hear what's actually THERE while mixing, then be able to flip to speakers similar to what the end listener may be hearing.

2) I use headphones for only two things: checking stereo panning, and effects (especially reverbb). Headphones give me an clearer sense of both. If my panning or effects sound too extreme in headphones, then they probably are. I would not attempt to use phone for something like balanceing volumne between bass and guitar, because they just dont do this well.

Clubzero, there is no law that says mixing audio can only be done at BLEEDING EARS LOUD VOLUMNE. Most old people are getting deaf already, if they are after your ass you probably just need to turn it down! While it may be fun to crank it up, you can get a pretty good idea whats going on at more sedate volumne levels. Bruce and these other guys might correct me on this, but I always find that mixing too loud gives me an exaggerated sense of bass frequencies - if I were to mix something very loud, I might wind up cutting too much bass (I'm sure the room I'm in has a lot to do with this).

And definately keep your headphone levels reasonable, or you will be taking the short path to hearing loss.
 
You are correct about mixing volumes RW.... many engineers (myself included) prefer a mixing level of around 85-90db.... it's real easy to fool yourself into thinking the mix is better than it is at high volume. Everything gets "hyped" that way....

Bruce
 
I,m glad to hear that, Bruce. I've wondered for some time now, should I move to the backwoods and live with the wild bears (koala bears that is), away from human civilization so I can turn my sound up louder to do a better mix.

I think there's a point when low volumes cause mids to be accentuated and I was under the impression for reasons like this sound engineers mixed at high volumes mainly. Anyway I am so new to all this it is embarising I'm not even sure what 85-90 decibels sounds like. Tomorrow I'll have to check the sticker on my whipper snipper or brush cutter you may call them in the US - that has a decibel rating written on it (75dB maybe I can't remember). Maybe 85-90dB IS loud in my estimation afterall!

Do you spend hours mixing at these volumes or give your ears a breather by turning things down from time to time?

Maybe I will have to go and live with the wild bears if they will have me that is.
 
Living with the bears is a GREAT way of life.... well - if they're 'engineering" bears anyways........

Circus bears aren't as much fun... something about wearing those stupid little outfits make them ornery...............

:D


I could be mistaken but I thought I remember a comment that 85-90db is the typical sound level that most people's ears frequency response is their flatest. (As you may or may not know - the human ear's frequency response changes relative to different SPLs...... which is the fundemental reason why headphone mixes don't work - everyone hears something different than anyone else via headphones!)

I do take frequent breaks during mixing, pretty much after each instrument I finish "futzing" with. (ie, get the drums sounding good, take a break, get the bass sounding good in the mix, take a break....etc..)

At 85db though - it is considered a moderately-low level, so unless you mix for 16 hours straight, ear damage is unlikely......

Bruce
 
IMHO, it´s best to mix with many different sound pressure levels. For example, I always listen to the mix with a low volume, then crank it. The first thing that starts to feel painfully loud should not be vocals (in my book...). Instrument balance changes with the volume, so just change the volume all the time. You can´t know how loud the real listener wants to listen your stuff. And probably it won´t be 100dB anyway.
 
RWhite said:
Well as a hacker who owns somewhat mediocre monitors and phones, I'll add my two bits.

1) I have my monitor speakers (Yamaha) hooked up along side a pair of basic consumer stereo speakers (KLH) so I can switch between them. I like to be able to hear what's actually THERE while mixing, then be able to flip to speakers similar to what the end listener may be hearing.

2) I use headphones for only two things: checking stereo panning, and effects (especially reverbb). Headphones give me an clearer sense of both. If my panning or effects sound too extreme in headphones, then they probably are. I would not attempt to use phone for something like balanceing volumne between bass and guitar, because they just dont do this well.

Clubzero, there is no law that says mixing audio can only be done at BLEEDING EARS LOUD VOLUMNE. Most old people are getting deaf already, if they are after your ass you probably just need to turn it down! While it may be fun to crank it up, you can get a pretty good idea whats going on at more sedate volumne levels. Bruce and these other guys might correct me on this, but I always find that mixing too loud gives me an exaggerated sense of bass frequencies - if I were to mix something very loud, I might wind up cutting too much bass (I'm sure the room I'm in has a lot to do with this).

And definately keep your headphone levels reasonable, or you will be taking the short path to hearing loss.
Click to expand...

Yes but the basses and such I can have equalized in the studio if they're not perfect. Anyway , thanks for the interest in my cause. :)

CZ
 
I had turned my monitors up to about 95dbs average one time. It hurt.

Now, I have it calibrated to an average of 85 decibels(over about 30 seconds of music) and its much more listenable.

An engineer suggested turning the monitos down -20 dbs from the regular 85 dbs to check balance. At -65 dbs, you can get good balance, except that the highs and lows will fade, so dont mess with your kick or snare eq at -65 dbs.
 
I worked at a radio station (classical and jazz) when I was in college and the only headphones they had were AKG 240's. And you know how snotty classical and jazz fans can be. :D
 
So sorry I took so long responding to your reply, Bruce. I have been inspecting some promising looking caves on the far side of Mt Wellington in the town where I live!

I checked the line trimmer/brush cutter (not sure of US translation but it's a US artifact - Ryobi!) loudness rating which was 77dBA (don't know what "A" stands for).

What caused me concern when you mentioned the 85-90 dB thing was the idea of starting up this mini lawnmower on a pole in a room in my flat - I would be deaf in 30 seconds! I think what is relevant here though is that indoors the sound would be greatly amplified above 77dB with wall reverberation! Also I'm sure music waves are far less jagged and jarring to the ears than a two stroke engine with a socially repressed maniac like me at the trigger, although now this is giving me ideas for developing a very evil new grunge sound..

I will take your very experienced word for 85dB being moderate and one day will probably get a clearer understanding of studio volumes in dB's. Also I'm sure there's also great value in monitoring at various volumes and even various distances from the speakers (even standing outside the room) for variation of perspective.

Appreciation,

Nigel

(The best caves had the biggest (and bluest) bears living in them).
 
Actually... a minor correction to one of my comments.... according to Fletcher-Munson, most people's ear response is flattest around the 80db mark.....

Regardless, many mixing engineers do use 85db as a starting point for monitoring/mixing levels....
It is a good idea to vary the level, but only after you've worked the mix enough to get levels where you think they ought to be. If you start varying levels before you've established say, your bass/kick relationship, you risk losing a consistent reference from which to work...... (my opinion - YMMV!)

Bruce
 
Great headphones:

Sennheiser HD600, especially if you can find them new on eBay for about $249 (they list for $200 more and usually sell for about $350). A hugely "best buy" at $250.

Etymotic Research 4RS, at about $280, an incredible experience, although you have to stuff them deep into your ear canal to hear the truth. As they occlude your ear passage, they also attenuate outside noise and therefore can be played at lower volumes. Unbelievable sound, including bass, at well under an ounce.

Until fairly recently, most commercial music was monitored on crap, and boy can you hear it on older recordings. Why did engineers put up with those honky, inaccurate, bland-sounding speakers for so long? Did they WANT everything to sound over-processed and EQd? Was their hearing so gone that they actually thought it sounded GOOD? Do they really think 50 microphones sound better than 6 or even 2 that are well placed? Maybe that's why about 3 out of 4 CDs sound so awful.

Some of the newer monitors are outstanding, but of course they are finally built and priced like fine home speakers. Some recordists want to hear their takes 1.) on a boombox; 2.) on a car stereo; 3.) on a department store stereo in addition to a good pair of monitors or a fine home stereo, since a lot of popular music is going to be played back through portables and other highly inaccurate systems. Consider the potential market for your sound.

Then there's bullshit bass: If I were smart, I'd be investing in hearing aid manufacturing and dispensing, since a good pair of hearing aids currently cost between $3800 and $8000 and have a life expectancy of only 3 to 5 years. All those guys with subwoofers in their cars are going to be deaf by 30, and the market will be huge. If your meters are pegged by someone 3 doors down the street playing his car stereo in his driveway, you know that the spl's inside his car are probably liquifying his brain. Think Darwin and be grateful it's not you.

Jeez, I'm crabby tonight! My apologies for the rant. But the Sennheiser HD600 and Etymotics 4RS are really great.

Mark H.
 
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