Help needed between two mics!

[sugarfreeboy]

Hi all,
Ive been considering a new microphone to go along with my Line 6 UX2, for vocal purposes (mostly Low-mid).
First option was the Studio Project C1, which I found to be very high-thought of.
second off in the list was the Audio-Technica AT2020.
And last was the AKG C3000B.

considering the fact that the C1 is often compared to the U87 itself (and keeping quite close by most reviews ive read), what is your take on things?

THANX!

 

[dgatwood]

For vocals? None of the above, perhaps.

The Studio Projects mics were good compared with the mics available at the time, and as such, got lots of great praise, but they seem to get a lot less hype these days when compared with the newer mics. These days, the only thing hyped about it is the high frequency response. (That's a pun. People describe this as a pretty bright mic.)

The AT2020 is usable on vocals, but it doesn't excel at them.

The C3000B gets a lot of reviews that describe it as being harsh, overly bright, and talking about how much it alters the tone. If that happens to match what your voice needs, it might be a good choice, but my guess would be that you wouldn't like this mic much, either.

What is your vocal range, style, etc.? I'm assuming by your screen name that you're male, and I'm guessing by "low-mid", you meant baritone range, probably? Is your voice thick or thin sounding? Is your voice bright or mellow? Strong or weak? Describe your voice in as much detail as possible. The right mic has to match the individual voice.

 

[sugarfreeboy]

WOW, thank you for taking the time to comment.

hm.
First off I'm pretty much all about Acoustic-Rock and other forms of Rock (Punk and such).
And as for my voice, I would say it's all very versatile isn't it? I might be very loud (as far as DB's are concerned) and might be quite quiet in a slow-dramatic acoustic song.
I wouldn't describe my voice as anywhere near high, but i might crank it up when needed (again, to a certain degree).
And yes Im a man

Thank you again, hope that narrows it.

 

[tojo]

I have an at2020 and it works for me. I think that I would like to get a rode nt1a someday

 

[dgatwood]

I wouldn't describe my voice as anywhere near high, but i might crank it up when needed (again, to a certain degree).
And yes Im a man

So probably a baritone. I'm going to go out on a limb and say ADK Hamburg.

 

[sugarfreeboy]

why is the ADK Hamburg considered as going out on a limb?

In addition, it seems there are different of versions of this mic at ebay, some all-silver some mostly black. all listed as brand new and yet price varies quite a bit (A good place to mention - 350$ = out of my reach...).

Now the thing is they don't sell these where I'm from, so alternatives are also welcomed!

Thanks again m8.

 

[Big Kenny]

where are you from?

 

[sugarfreeboy]

I'm from Israel, didn't want to get the whole political debate going into the thread.

 

[Shadow_7]

What sort of budget? I'm liking my SM-81's for what I record. When I was scoping them out before purchase, I noticed that they were favored by some choirs, particularly in the Bass voice. So they'd probably work good for vocals. Just a good all around what you hear is what you get mic, with a pretty good low end, which is why I got them. Although that may not be very flattering for some vocalists.

 

[PhilGood]

I'm from Israel, didn't want to get the whole political debate going into the thread.

Why would being from Israel automatically put a political slant on the thread?

The C1 had its chops busted quite a few years ago for being compared to a U87. It lacks the midrange. The newer ones might be a lot better, but it's been a while since anyone drew that comparison.

You might want to think about a SP B1. Very versatile mic.

The Hamburg is also a great suggestion.

MXL V67G would probably work well for you too.

 

[dgatwood]

why is the ADK Hamburg considered as going out on a limb?

It's going out on a limb because I've never heard your voice, and if my interpretation of your description of your voice is wrong, you might find the Hamburg too bright.

If you want a "safe" choice, I'd suggest the CAD M177, M179, or M9. You may find them to be a little dull, in which case you should a little EQ boost to add some edge, but otherwise, they should work reasonably. I really like the M9 myself, but good luck finding one of those used on eBay....

 

[sugarfreeboy]

Again, I noticed two versions of this mic sold on eBay, one is all silver and much less expensive and the second mostly black (aside from the top silver) and far more expensive (350$).
Both mics are described as ADK Hamburg edition.
Why the difference? (found it, one is the Mk 8, a newer version of the mic)

//edit:
First, I have to state, 300$ is over my limit on this (considering that shipment + tax will make it far more expensive then stated price...)
Second, Ive searched the web for m177 reviews and came across one found at SoundOnSound. The thing is this mic seems quite old as well (like the c-1), and not as high thought of as the c-1. Would you still recommend one over the other?
Thanks again!

 

[dgatwood]

Second, Ive searched the web for m177 reviews and came across one found at SoundOnSound.

I read that SoS review, and it seems like the review was pretty flattering, with their only real complaints being placement of the serial number sticker (wow, that's a serious problem... ), a complaint about its current requirements (which I think is just plain incorrect), and lack of a shock mount (and Samson makes a compatible shock mount for about $21, making that a rather moot point these days).

Their point about the current is, I believe, indicative that the author doesn't understand electronics. He/she complained about it requiring an 8mA supply while a comparable AKG mics requires 3mA. However, the mic's specs say it can accommodate a supply voltage as low as 24V. The thing is, 24V x 8mA is the same as 48V x 4mA. Whoop-de-doo, it uses 33% more power than the AKG, but still less than a lot of high-end mics by Geffell, etc.

Besides, the modern standard for phantom power is 10 mA supply current. If your supply can't provide 8 mA, you need a new phantom power supply.... Anyway, I just thought that was amusing.

Anyway, here's another review:

http://www.studioauditions.com/gearreviewdetail.php?GearReviewID=27

The thing is this mic seems quite old as well (like the c-1), and not as high thought of as the c-1. Would you still recommend one over the other?
Thanks again!

The CAD mics are of the same vintage as the SP mics, but there's one big difference. The Studio Projects capsules are 797 Audio capsules (Chinese), while the CAD capsules are not Chinese-designed, and were at least originally built in the U.S., though they may be built in China now.

The CADs are going to be at minimum serviceable on any voice, while the SP mics can be downright harsh on some voices. That extra brightness can always be added afterwards if it is needed, but once you get harshness caused by uneven response, you'll give yourself fits trying to fix it.

So yes, I'd definitely still recommend the CAD over the Studio Projects mic. Nothing against the SP mics---their T3 is reportedly rather good.

Initial reviews of products are always pretty glowing. A better way to judge mics is by what people think of them after a few years.

 

[mshilarious]

Their point about the current is, I believe, indicative that the author doesn't understand electronics. He/she complained about it requiring an 8mA supply while a comparable AKG mics requires 3mA. However, the mic's specs say it can accommodate a supply voltage as low as 24V. The thing is, 24V x 8mA is the same as 48V x 4mA. Whoop-de-doo, it uses 33% more power than the AKG, but still less than a lot of high-end mics by Geffell, etc.

Besides, the modern standard for phantom power is 10 mA supply current. If your supply can't provide 8 mA, you need a new phantom power supply.... Anyway, I just thought that was amusing.

I don't agree. Current draw in phantom power supplies is a serious problem at the moment. The problem is there are many, many nonconforming power supplies, and many of them are found in portable devices and USB interfaces that are very popular right now. There are even more than a few rack units that can't do 10mA, which is inexplicable to me.

The reason is it's very important for marketing purposes for a preamp to state it has +48V. Whether or not that +48V is in compliance with the phantom power standard is almost never mentioned by the preamp designers.

When you have mic like the CAD, it can cause issues. The CAD uses an opamp, so total power is not that relevant--48V at 4mA is not the same as 24V at 8mA, the CAD will want its 8mA irrespective of supply voltage. So a noncompliant 48V supply will drop much more than 27V it should across a compliant supply, potentially reducing the mic's headroom or causing it not to work at all.

The blame should be placed on the preamp, but speaking from experience that is rarely the case--the customer will perceive that this one mic doesn't work when every other mic they have does.

At any rate, you would have to consider the cost of a compliant power supply added to the mic in that case.

 

[sugarfreeboy]

dgatwood,
I owe you a personal thank you for these very serious comments!

About the current thing, Will the Line 6 UX2 supply the needed 8ma for the mic to work? or, as mshilarious said, I'll need a dedicated power supply to get the mic going?

Oh, and will it help you tell which mic is right for me if I'll record my own voice and upload it?

Im kind-of out of thank you's due to this thread

 

[suprstar]

I haven't used AT condensors, so I can't comment.. My band uses a couple dynamics for live use, not impressed.. I know it's apples and oranges, but just sayin'...

http://www.myspace.com/spiraltrance - My buddy's band, all self produced, vox done thru a C1 and a Presonus channel strip, sounds great imo. I'd take a C1 over any comparably priced AT mic any day.

Myself, I use the CAD M177's dgatwood mentioned, great mic for the price. The M179 is the same mic with switchable polarity patterns.. Not an issue if you're gonna be standing in front of the mic singing into it in a studio setting.

 

[suprstar]

The C1 had its chops busted quite a few years ago for being compared to a U87.

Except with the same $$, you can get a whole case of C1's, or a u87.. In other news, this year's Mazda M6 didn't hold a candle to the new z06 vette's.... I'd say that's more of a problem with person doing the comparison! The C1 gets the job done very well, even if it isn't the blingiest mic around.

 

[dgatwood]

When you have mic like the CAD, it can cause issues. The CAD uses an opamp, so total power is not that relevant--48V at 4mA is not the same as 24V at 8mA, the CAD will want its 8mA irrespective of supply voltage. So a noncompliant 48V supply will drop much more than 27V it should across a compliant supply, potentially reducing the mic's headroom or causing it not to work at all.

Are you saying you think the op amp is drawing that much current? I was under the assumption that the high current draw was probably for the capsule supply, e.g. driving a regulator or some such, in which case IIRC the current draw would decrease as the supply got closer to the desired output voltage of the regulator. Am I misremembering how regulators behave?