A1A2
New member
investing several hundreds in mics might get you further....at least more flavor 
AL
AL
2
20db.com
New member
AL, I will not argue with you about investing in good mics, this always a smart move.
But also I have seen $200 mics into a $2000 mic pre sound unbelievable. But I have rarely heard a $2000 mic into a $200 mic pre sound as good.
There are exceptions in every case with mic/pre combination but even an SM-57 into a NV is pretty sweet.
Lee
20db.com
"Providing Passionate Artist with Inspiring Tools"
But also I have seen $200 mics into a $2000 mic pre sound unbelievable. But I have rarely heard a $2000 mic into a $200 mic pre sound as good.
There are exceptions in every case with mic/pre combination but even an SM-57 into a NV is pretty sweet.
Lee
20db.com
"Providing Passionate Artist with Inspiring Tools"
A1A2
New member
20db:
I will have to take your words for it because after all I don't own a $2000 pre. From what I remember, maybe from Harvy, a dynamic mic like 57 is alot more sensitive to pres than others. So my logic is, if i had $2000 to spend, wouldn't it be wiser to get a, say, Grace, and use the rest of the $100-1500 on different, perhaps, better mics? since Grace is already a big step-up from a mic modelling pre. What's your opinion on this??
AL
I will have to take your words for it because after all I don't own a $2000 pre. From what I remember, maybe from Harvy, a dynamic mic like 57 is alot more sensitive to pres than others. So my logic is, if i had $2000 to spend, wouldn't it be wiser to get a, say, Grace, and use the rest of the $100-1500 on different, perhaps, better mics? since Grace is already a big step-up from a mic modelling pre. What's your opinion on this??
AL
2
20db.com
New member
AL this is an excellent question and to be honest there is no right or wrong answer on some thing like this.
When I make decisions like this I always pretend I have $1 to spend and the goal is to spend that dollar in the area were it will do the most good. Where can that dollar effect the quality of the recording the most. Now of course the problem is the decision on where to spend that dollar will vary based on the last piece of gear I purchased. As you add more gear the priority changes.
But more specifically, a lot of mics will sound differently given input impedance of the mic pre, the cable, the loading, all kinds of things. People take this stuff for granted but it does have an effect. Leaving all the technical details a side for a second....
Extremely important point a lot of people do not understand about mic preamp quality. First of all a lot of the low end mic preamps on the market are no better than the ones in the console you already own. I see a lot of people on forums recommend a new mic pre for no reason. Mic preamps are trendy and the low end is flooded with so-so products.
The quality of a mic preamp can not be truly determined by simply comparing a single channel of one pre against another. I have seen a lot of blind shoot outs were a Mackie mic preamp will beat a more expensive product. Most people do not understand the difference between a $200 and a $2000 mic pre is most evident when you are listening to 24 tracks made with that preamp. This is what separates the men from the boys. Its the quality of the collective tracks that will make the difference.
Al, your example of the Grace is a little different because you are talking about a mic pre that is really a $700 product. The sub-$1000 product is generally a lot different than a sub-$300 mic preamp.
My advise is usually to buy gear that you can live with for 20 years. Now this doesn't mean you will keep it that long but think of this stuff as an investment and you want gear that will last and continue to have a place in your rack even if you buy better gear.
In your situation if you only have $2000 then you are already limited by what you can do. This is not a put down or a judgement but no matter what you do you are going to get a $2000 sounding setup. But with good technique, paying attention to details and being creative you can produce some pretty darn good stuff now days.
If I were in your situation (given the limited knowledge I have from your question) I would keep my eyes peeled for a good deal on a used high quality mic preamp. The Grace is a nice piece of gear but if I only had one (what I call my desert island pick) my personal preference is sound of a Neve 1073. I think its much more versatile than the Grace and others of that design. I would put $1000-$1300 aside for the highest quality I can afford in roughly that range. You could actually get a single channel Great River for $975 new so this is one option.
Then I would invest the rest in 2 decent mics. Now this will depend on what kind of music you are recording but with one large diaphragm condenser and one small diaphragm condenser and a SM-57 you can record a lot of stuff. Again try to buy the best quality you can afford and assume you will keep them for a while.
Al, I don't know if any of this make sense and I apologize for rambling on and on. I know these are not easy decisions and you want to make every dollar count.
Lee
20db.com
"Providing Passionate Artist with Inspiring Tools"
When I make decisions like this I always pretend I have $1 to spend and the goal is to spend that dollar in the area were it will do the most good. Where can that dollar effect the quality of the recording the most. Now of course the problem is the decision on where to spend that dollar will vary based on the last piece of gear I purchased. As you add more gear the priority changes.
But more specifically, a lot of mics will sound differently given input impedance of the mic pre, the cable, the loading, all kinds of things. People take this stuff for granted but it does have an effect. Leaving all the technical details a side for a second....
Extremely important point a lot of people do not understand about mic preamp quality. First of all a lot of the low end mic preamps on the market are no better than the ones in the console you already own. I see a lot of people on forums recommend a new mic pre for no reason. Mic preamps are trendy and the low end is flooded with so-so products.
The quality of a mic preamp can not be truly determined by simply comparing a single channel of one pre against another. I have seen a lot of blind shoot outs were a Mackie mic preamp will beat a more expensive product. Most people do not understand the difference between a $200 and a $2000 mic pre is most evident when you are listening to 24 tracks made with that preamp. This is what separates the men from the boys. Its the quality of the collective tracks that will make the difference.
Al, your example of the Grace is a little different because you are talking about a mic pre that is really a $700 product. The sub-$1000 product is generally a lot different than a sub-$300 mic preamp.
My advise is usually to buy gear that you can live with for 20 years. Now this doesn't mean you will keep it that long but think of this stuff as an investment and you want gear that will last and continue to have a place in your rack even if you buy better gear.
In your situation if you only have $2000 then you are already limited by what you can do. This is not a put down or a judgement but no matter what you do you are going to get a $2000 sounding setup. But with good technique, paying attention to details and being creative you can produce some pretty darn good stuff now days.
If I were in your situation (given the limited knowledge I have from your question) I would keep my eyes peeled for a good deal on a used high quality mic preamp. The Grace is a nice piece of gear but if I only had one (what I call my desert island pick) my personal preference is sound of a Neve 1073. I think its much more versatile than the Grace and others of that design. I would put $1000-$1300 aside for the highest quality I can afford in roughly that range. You could actually get a single channel Great River for $975 new so this is one option.
Then I would invest the rest in 2 decent mics. Now this will depend on what kind of music you are recording but with one large diaphragm condenser and one small diaphragm condenser and a SM-57 you can record a lot of stuff. Again try to buy the best quality you can afford and assume you will keep them for a while.
Al, I don't know if any of this make sense and I apologize for rambling on and on. I know these are not easy decisions and you want to make every dollar count.
Lee
20db.com
"Providing Passionate Artist with Inspiring Tools"
M
maskedman72
Member
good points! no one has told me to get into better mics. but i do feel that even if i stay with the mics i have and go with a great river pre i should get a better quality recording. i have looked into getting a neve 1073 and the price is insane(it would need to be racked with ins and outs and phantom and a power supply)
i could go with a single great river channel and a speack eq and get a better mic but what mic would i get? that would leave me with about $500 for the mic. the music i record is harder edged stuff and i go directly into a da-38. you guys have really been helping me on this and i am greatfull. and just for the record i think by listening to everyone a have narrowed it down to either the phoenix audio or the great river. more people have been talking about the great river pre. thanks!!!
i could go with a single great river channel and a speack eq and get a better mic but what mic would i get? that would leave me with about $500 for the mic. the music i record is harder edged stuff and i go directly into a da-38. you guys have really been helping me on this and i am greatfull. and just for the record i think by listening to everyone a have narrowed it down to either the phoenix audio or the great river. more people have been talking about the great river pre. thanks!!!
M
maskedman72
Member
ok now lets say i went with a single channel of great river. that would leave me with 1,000 for a mic/mics. what would you choose?
A1A2
New member
20db:
No, you are making alot of sense, in fact, I am enlightened. These are very valuable information/experiences that you are sharing with us here.
"a lot of the low end mic preamps on the market are no better than the ones in the console you already own"---
Yeah, I remember being frustrated to choose a preamp awhile back, and a sweetwater salesman simply told me, work with your Mackie and save until you can afford a Grace or better. And like you said, 20db, I probably saved myself $300 by not buying a sub $300 pre.
Again, thanks for all the helpful advices.
maskedman72:
I am not sure what your ultimate goal is, but you shouldn't expect a new pre making your recording total-pro all of a sudden tho. One thing I have learned from experience is that room sound plays a huge factor as well, and of course souce, cable, and etc are all important. So, you might double check your setup/environment before you settle down on your shopping list. I will leave the mics to the experienced people here.
Good luck, looking forward to hear your recording once you get everything in place
AL
No, you are making alot of sense, in fact, I am enlightened. These are very valuable information/experiences that you are sharing with us here.
"a lot of the low end mic preamps on the market are no better than the ones in the console you already own"---
Yeah, I remember being frustrated to choose a preamp awhile back, and a sweetwater salesman simply told me, work with your Mackie and save until you can afford a Grace or better. And like you said, 20db, I probably saved myself $300 by not buying a sub $300 pre.
Again, thanks for all the helpful advices.
maskedman72:
I am not sure what your ultimate goal is, but you shouldn't expect a new pre making your recording total-pro all of a sudden tho. One thing I have learned from experience is that room sound plays a huge factor as well, and of course souce, cable, and etc are all important. So, you might double check your setup/environment before you settle down on your shopping list. I will leave the mics to the experienced people here.
Good luck, looking forward to hear your recording once you get everything in place
AL
M
maskedman72
Member
the mic cable you use makes a differance in the sound? i have heard conflicting stories on this one. can anyone put light on this?
i wouldnt expect my recordings to sound pro cause of a mic pre but i would expect to hear a difference from just using the mackie pres even if my room isnt the best. this pre is going in my home studio so i dont really have a room any different than anyones elses house.
i wouldnt expect my recordings to sound pro cause of a mic pre but i would expect to hear a difference from just using the mackie pres even if my room isnt the best. this pre is going in my home studio so i dont really have a room any different than anyones elses house.
darrin_h2000
Banned
First things first, your choice at 500.00 includes maybe a Neumann off of ebay TL-103 i think is the model. A C3 from studio projects is an exellent choice here because of the three patterns.
The wiring thing has been bugging me since I started this hobby, I eventually did Aquire Monster cables for my mics and mogami wiring for the rest of the equipment. and It does sound better to me.
The wiring thing has been bugging me since I started this hobby, I eventually did Aquire Monster cables for my mics and mogami wiring for the rest of the equipment. and It does sound better to me.
M
mwarkentin
New member
I've used an Avalon 737sp, and while I REALLY have no idea how it compares to any other pre's at that level, it does include eq and a compressor, and it is very easy to set it up for de-essing.. which I found very nice during tracking, as long as you don't overdo it. Could be something you'd like to take into consideration. I'm not sure how much the Avalon's retail for though, I rented the one I used.
