Help a poor aussie find an acoustic guitar mic...

[SeventhWave]

I've been searching the forum for information on particular mics but would like a little more input...

I have a very basic setup, cool edit pro 2, a sound blaster live card and a small behringer 602a mixer (has phantom power). I know this isn't a very good setup but i'm looking for a mic (I can't afford a stereo pair) that will make what i have sound as good as possible.

I've narrowed down my choice to either a rode nt-3 (SD), a behringer b-2 (LD) and a cheap LD mxl (can't remember the name). These are all the mics available in my area, I am going to go out and try them myself but study/work has been full on this month.

From what I've read a pair of SD mics are the standard for recording acoustic guitar. A pair of rode nt-3's would be perfect but i can only afford one, and all the other rodes are too expensive for me. I'll be recording acoustic guitars 80% of the time and vocals roughly 20%. Would you recomend I get the lone nt-3 SD or would a cheap mxl LD (603's are too expensive here) or behringer LD mic be more suited to my needs?

sorry about the newbie question but any advice is appreciated...

 

[MasterVolume]

I have rode Nt3.. It works GREAT on acoustic guitar.. Will also work good on some peoples vocals as well... be sure and use a pop filter with it on vocals though as its really prone to pops being a hyper cardioid

 

[tdukex]

Oktava MC012 is a nice guit mic. Actually, IMO you should be able to get a decent sound with any cheap LD or SD. No, It won't sound like a KM 184 through an Avalon, but with proper mic placement it can be decent.

I'm sure either the B2 or the NT3 will do fine.

 

[ausrock]

SeventhWave,

What make and model of acoustic do you anticipate usually recording? Also, where are you?

NT3's (well at least any I have encountered) tend to be quite bright (toppy) and may not be as forgiving as a lot of other mics out there.

I have one or two other suggestions, but these are dependant on your answers.

 

[SeventhWave]

thanks for your info... I'll mainly be recording my dad's old acoustic. He bought it in the early seventies, The guitar is a 'Kasuga', some asian brand i've never heard of but the guitar has a lovely warm sound, no idea of the model... I play with a friend that has a Au$700 Maton, no idea of the model, It's a bit brighter than mine. I know my behringer mixer won't bring out the best of any mic I buy, but I think it basically comes down to SD vs. LD. Any coments?

Thanks for your opinions

 

[SeventhWave]

I'm in Perth by the way if that's any help

 

[DJL]

, but I think it basically comes down to SD vs. LD. Any coments?

You should read the big sticky thread at the top of this board. There are two camps of thought about this for recording accoustic instruments... those who like the LDC, and those who like the SDC. I'm in the SDC camp... but, what it really comes down to is... which camp are you in. You'll need to try both to find out or just flip a coin.

 

[billisa]

I've been searching the forum for information on particular mics but would like a little more input...

I have a very basic setup, cool edit pro 2, a sound blaster live card and a small behringer 602a mixer (has phantom power). I know this isn't a very good setup but i'm looking for a mic (I can't afford a stereo pair) that will make what i have sound as good as possible.

From what I've read a pair of SD mics are the standard for recording acoustic guitar. A pair of rode nt-3's would be perfect but i can only afford one, and all the other rodes are too expensive for me. I'll be recording acoustic guitars 80% of the time and vocals roughly 20%.
sorry about the newbie question but any advice is appreciated...

I wonder if a Studio Projects B1 (LD) would be a good choice, or a Rode NT1a (much more $$). The SPB1 (totally different from the Behringer) is great on vocals and a lot of people like it on instruments. I believe it can be had in Oz. The price should be very competitive.

 

[ausrock]

The Studio Projects B1 has to be your first choice in large diaphragm mics.

Likewise, the MXL603 has to be the small diaphragm choice.

The B1 won't be quite as bright sounding as the 603, and as with any combination of mic and acoustic, some work better than others......there is no one mic (particularly in any acceptable price range), that will suit every situation.

The B1 has a RRP of $249 Aust., and you should be able to get it for around $220. The 603's have a RRP of $269 Aust and I'm not sure of how much margin retailers have to play with on those. Alternatively, you could contact the SP dealer in NZ, Oceania, as they can offer legitimately better deals on the SP range. PM me if you want contact details.

 

[Flatpicker]

Take a look at the thread, "Poll:Just got my NT5s...." for more info on this. As far as LDCs go, listen to session 5 here: http://www.thelisteningsessions.com/home.htm and take your pick. Also, there's going to be a CD available at this site soon comparing all the SDCs you see in the picture. (Dot ought to send me one free, as much as I advertise his site! )

 

[SeventhWave]

Thanks for all your help guys, this forum rocks...

I've read a fair bit of Harvey Gerst's sticky thread at the top, but there's a lot there to digest, as i've never recorded anyone before...

Does this logic seem correct?

I'm leaning towards a SD condenser because (generally) it won't pick up as much room sound as a LD. I'm just recording in my bedroom (carpeted floors but plaster walls) and I'm guessing my room's acoustics aren't the best. I'll also be using my computer to record, and I heard that the LD picks up a lot more of the rooms ambience compared to a SD, and I don't think throwing a blanket over my computer will dampen things much...

Hey ausrock, could you post the details of where to get the best SP prices, thanks heaps

 

[Armistice]

7thWave

If you want to do it, I will sell you my pair of MXL603s for $400AUD - I'm in Sydney but I'm sure I can Express Post them to Perth for you.

Like Flatpicker said though, read the NT5s thread first. You'll see I'm happy with neither, however I'm trying to get very good quality recordings on solo acoustic guitar (Maton Messiah - had an upgrade ausrock!). Many, many other people on this board will recommend the MXL603s as the best low cost SD condensors for acoustic guitar out there (that you're liable to find in Australia, that is!)

They may work for what you're doing, given the nature of the guitar - a good starting point for you and better than one NT3 - I think you'll find most here would agree.

If they don't, then you've got yourself a pair of MXL603s for $400 when the retail is $538 - I'm sure you could offload them in turn at a profit/break-even if you wanted to.

Send me a private message or email me at armistice@bigpond if you want them.

They include wallet, foam guard & mic clip - in the original boxes. To all intents and purposes they are new.

Only place I know of in Aus that deals in Studio Projects is some mob in Adelaide called Front End Music, I think. Ausrock may have other leads for you, though.

Cheers

David

 

[ausrock]

Hey Armi,

I thought I noticed an upgrade of sorts . Sorry to hear you're still having probs, although the nature of solo high end acoustic is definitely going to be more demanding...............I may be wrong, but I would be hanging on to the mics for now and looking at the rest of your signal chain...........a lot of the answer may lie there.

Seventh,

I think the LD/SD, room ambience issue is going to be dependant on your particular room...................IOW, what works for you may not work in someone else's bedroom. Also, keep in mind that you are just starting out, so it is probably wise to start with just a single mic and learn to use it first before getting carried away with multiple mic techniques.............learn to crawl before you walk. The day you think you know it all is the day you want to burn your gear and find a new interest.

One solution a lot of people have success with is to hang some heavy blankets up around a room..........preferably a few inches (+100mm) out from the walls, which assist to kill a certain amount of "room noise"............OR, use blankets to create a booth. Don't even think of using either egg cartons or normal foam rubber, they don't work!!!

Front End Audio in Adelaide, are the Aust., distributors for Studio Projects, although they don't mind going behind their dealers backs and dabbling in retail. Consequently, I would suggest you have a look around this site.......http://www.musiclab.net.au/ ...........or alternatively contact Nigel at Oceania.........nigelrus@oceania-audio.co.nz ..............he is a nice guy and as Oceania are the only dealer in NZ, there is no middle man to get in the way of sensible pricing.

 

[SeventhWave]

Thanks for the offer Armistice, but I can only spare about $250, which is why I was asking about the rode nt-3... I know a guy who works at a music store around me who stocks them so I could get one for $200.

Hmm... i'm wondering now, most people that use SD mics usually use 2 for a stereo effect. Would one SD still sound relatively decent? Or would a LD be better than a lone SD?

I think i'm confusing myself a bit hehe

 

[Aren]

Yes. One SD mic would sound decent enough. You can always double track your guitar (play the same part twice) for that stereo effect.
I think that the decision on the SD/LD debate has to do with the type of music you're recording/playing. A LD mic will give you more "meat" (for lack of a better word), and will work better for a solo accoustic guitar type of music. A SD will be better for strummed rhythm guitar.
Another thing to consider, is whether the mic will be used for anything else other than the guitar. If you also need a vocal mic, then by all means, get an LD.
Also, don't knock the Behringer ECM-8000 for an accoustic. I don't know how much it costs in Australia, but its reallyy cheap in the US (and really nonexistant in Israel...). If it's cheap enough, maybe get a LD mic, as well as an ECM. If you're handy with a solder iron, you can easily build your own omnidirectional electret mic very similar to the ECM-8000. Tell me if you need schematics.

Oren

 

[SeventhWave]

I'm leaning towards a LD mic now, particularly the SP B1. I've read heaps of past threads and found a lot of people comparing the B1 to the MXL V67G...
I've searched away and found the B1 at AU$249, as ausrock said, but the v67g rrp was AU$599... I guess their prices are a bit more competitive in the states, otherwise it doesn't really seem like a fair comparison.

Anyway, I'm playing a mixture of fingerstyle and picking, guitar is the main instrument, but i'll be adding several layers of electro-ambience on top, with sparse, spun out beats (an eclectic mixture of bjork and sigor ros type stuff). I've listened to the mp3's at thelisteningsessions.com and found the nt-3 lifeless and boring. The B1 comes into my price range quite nicely so i'll think i'll opt for that. All I need now is a decent pre and a decent soundcard (for now hehe)

 

[robjh22]

pair of LD's?

Are we novices really going to be unable to make our acoustic
guitars sound good with a pair of LD's, which you can get for, what, $50 - $60 apiece at Musician's Friend (V57 and V63 respectively)?

The money some of us are talking about spending on the mike would be a good down payment on a new Martin. Suppose I play a cheap Yamaha steel string (no offense, it's a great company)
into ONE 603, and you then play a good Martin into a pair of V63's. What's likely to sound better, given equal opportunity to move mikes around and assuming we're good players?

I suppose I could turn the question around and say it's best, long term, to buy one expensive SD for guitar, then save up for a second one next year, this as opposed to grabbing 2 LD's now just because they are cheap. But honestly, are amateurs like me
and seventhwave (no offense, 7th) really going to be unhappy with a pair of high quality LD's that we are lucky enough to get for $50 apiece? Believe me, I don't pretend to know. I know we won't know till we try, but it's not easy for most of us to trya out 10 different microphones because of where we live.

I do imagine everyone would agree that you shouldn't get one unless you're reasonably certain you will eventuially be able to get a second one of exactly the same model for stereo recording of guitar.

 

[Aren]

robjh22 -
Funny you should mention the V63/V57 (Absolutely the same mic. get which ever one is cheaper).
I have one of those (actually called 1006. Yet another name for the same mic), and I think that accoustic guitar is actually where this mic sounds best. Since it's a fairly neutral, "airy" mic, it works really nice on both rhythm and lead guitar.
A pair of those would do justice to your Yamaha, and I bet a Martin would be complimented by it as well.

Oren

 

[robjh22]

Thanks, Aren. I actually have a Martin HD 35. gorgeous sounding live, just looking for that decent mike, you know?? I'm not sure you really commented on the question, though -- can casual non-professionals really tell a lot of diff. between/among LD condensers? And if you can get a good quality condenser for under a hundred bucks, why not just get that and spend the money on a better instrument, etc., which most of us can discern among.

I'll wait for a few more comments -- some on the board seem to despise 57's -- I can't imagine there is that much difference to the non-professional. But what do I know?

Wow, you're in Israel? Be safe. And thanks,

Shalom (sp?)

Rob

 

[Aren]

Rob,

Whether or not you can distinguish between mics has nothing to do if you're a professional or not. It's all about the ears...
Some people don't like the 57, but to be honest, I can't see why. Sure, there are better mics out there, but for the price, it can't be beat, and it sounds decent enough.
Anyway, don't trust me or anyone else, for that matter. Go to www.thelisteningsessions.com and have a listen.
I checked the entire Marshall line on that page, and to me the 1006 sounds better than the 2001, 990 and the V67 (on a guitar, that is), and not as good as the 2003. Then again, it's just me.
You can also check my nowhere page (www.nowhereradio.com/Eejit/singles). In "broken glass" the 1006 was used on accoustic guitars (burried deep in the mix), drum overhead (crappy drumset) and vocals. On "Break Your Heart" a pair of 1006s were used as room mics for taping the show, and in "Delicate Flowers" it was used on vocals.
The rule is - if it sounds good to you, it is good.

Oren