Help a digihead out..cassette playback deck

  • Thread starter Thread starter RFsoundguy
  • Start date Start date
cassettes are ok but not even close to the pure quality you get from a tape reel.

Several reasons.

1. Wider tape = easier to edit / join / splice

2. no cross talk between tracks (bleadthrough / quiet background noise )

3. up to 70% more recording time (running speed dependant)

These are the key factors i looked at before choosing my primary recording medium.

Although the cost may be substancially higher, i like to think of it as paying for quality.

I have never seen any cassette able to record more than 4 tracks

Tape reels can manage anything from 1 single track to 24 tracks (tape width and machine dependant)

So whats the better medium ?

In my opinion it is reel to reel tape - The Best, The finest, and above all the easiest :D

Keith
 
TR,

Don't feel bad; I can assure you I love the Nakas too, the 700 and the Dragon, in praticular of course...major bloodletting to own one back in the day though. These days I go for 'safe' recommendations, because on the whole, I think industrial machines simply survive better, even though I know the top Nakamichis boasted probably the widest frequency response ever achieved by a cassette deck.

Ultimately, even my beloved Teac 410 was brought down not by the heads, but by the capstan motor; it simply had given everything it could over 18 years of great-sounding work.

RF,
Find a de-magging casette if these are still available. They used to be sold by Radio Shack, you might still find one. They have a little hearing-aid-style battery and you basically turn off all amplification, put the cassette in and hit play, the meters slam into red once, and thus your heads are de-magged.
If not, you'll have to get a small demagging wand to do the job. Also 99% alcohol and q-tips for frequent cleaning of the tape path and heads, due to the age of the tapes.

Keith,
I know you are overseas, but this might help:
The guy I bought my Tascam 112 from on EBay told me he has motors and spare parts available, so it might be worth a shot to see if he can help you. PM me if you want his info.

Best,
C.
 
Teac A-3300S Reel To Reel Tape Recorder - Info

sure that would be great.

Any info on getting parts for this machine would be great :D

This machine is ok mechanically but the auto stop switch has been bypassed and i got 6 wires that have been blanked off and i dont think any of the motors will run without it. The way they were previosly wired it was discharging 60V AC through the metal frame and i got one HELL of a belt from it. When i took a meter reading from the chassis and the AC input terminals i nearly had a heart attack. 60V AC at 2.75 Amps was discharging into the metal frame as soon as i plugged in the power cord. And i took another reading that told me that a 60V outlet from the main transformer was leading directly to the metal frame. As soon as i seperated these wires the circuit was clean. I had a look at some schematic diagrams but i am still none the wiser on where to get a automatic stop control unit for this machine or how these wires are supposed to be conected.

I took apart the right reel turntable and the shaft is slightly buckled the turn screw and pin on the tip of the shaft is gone, and the reel guides on the turntable itself have all been sheared off. as for the motor clamps i had to reallign both so the tape runs between the reel plates instead of making contact resulting in friction damage from the reels so this is ok.

I have found a reel table on ebay Uk but the table diamater is only 90Cm (mine are 110cm) so the table may not be useable but the center shaft and locking clamp might be. This may not be a problem during playback but on fast wind i have a feeling that the reel may start to lose traction due to the missing reel guides. I have emailed a couple of retailers and they seem very limited on any if any parts that would be useful to me, at best i only found Nab reel adapters and replacement pinch roller but no major parts like the automatic stop switch or the reel turntable.

Any info much apreciated :D

Keith
 
Last edited:
The lowest cost TASCAM Pro cassette deck is the 102 MKII. It doesn’t have the bells and whistles of the 122/112, but specs out as well, and sounds just as good. For playback only you can't go wrong. I have one and it does a great job for record and reproduce.

Dolby B/C & HX Pro (though HX Pro only comes into play during recording, it's nice to have)

The link below has more info and a pdf manual.

http://www.tascam.com/Products/102mkII.html

:)
 
Supposedly the 112mkII I'm getting has been completely cleaned and demagnitized, but I will try and find a demag tape. I do like Nak stuff, I've got a Nak head unit in my Porsche which I'm crazy about. It only plays CDs and AM/FM, but it sounds amazing and the subdued styling fits nicely with the interior. I hate the new chrome/blue/flashing neon style that most manufacturers are going with.

I really appreciate everyone's help with this so far....
 
RFsoundguy said:
but I will try and find a demag tape.

NO! STOP!!

Do NOT get a cassette based demagnetizer. It's really worthless and can leave the tape path worse off.
 
500 tapes eh? You'll need perseverance!
Basically any one of a number of cassette decks would suit but the most important thing is condition. Compared to a cheap little player that works well, a Nakamichi Dragon or a Tascam 122 with a worn out head or which chews tapes is a waste of time. A Tascam 122 may have seen a lot of work and need a good service before you let it anywhere near important tapes. If the 500 tapes are important, whatever machine you use should be in top condition.

Anyone who's serious about doing cassette transfers properly puts adjusting the tape head azimuth to the actual tape's magnetic alignment very high on the list. Best to do while listening in mono but transferring in stereo -if it's a stereo recording. Hint: aligning on audience applause is ideal. It's like a white noise source and is vicious on any slight misalignment. If you are trying to decode dolby or dbx tapes when the azimuth is significantly off, you are wasting your time. It will sound disgusting.
Adjusting azimuth is also a waste of time unless the play head is virtually unworn. Any significant groove in the head will impede adjusting for any angle outside of that wear groove.

I suspect the average person has been conned into thinking that apart from maybe having a good cassette brand and model, digital audio restoration software is the key. It isnt. Getting a good clean ANALOG transfer is the key. The real pro's know this but the message doesnt seem to have filtered through. For example, if azimuth is significantly off when transferring, NOTHING can digitally restore this, except maybe for left/right phase coherence. Noise reduction software is an "after the fact" process. Unless the information is there in the first place (ie: has actually got to the line out sockets on the deck) no software can do anything to retrieve what's no longer there.
I sometimes surf the net for "before and after" examples on audio restoration sites. They mostly should be showing the difference between proper and improper ANALOG transfers - before it's even reached the digital stage. Instead it seems an opportunity to demonstrate just how poorly they understand the limits of their own software, or of their ability to use it.
Top drawer digitally remastered albums generally sound so good because all was done properly at every point in the signal chain, but especially the analog. "Digital remastering" mostly sounds better than the vinyl pressing because it eliminates the intermediate analog stages and gives you closer access to the original analog tape. That's why the CD cover makes a big thing about "remastered from the original analog tape". But it's also possible to digitally remaster from the original tape and do it badly.
Cassettes are no different except they're MORE fussy, both at the recording and at the playback stage, especially since they were usually recorded by amateurs. When some professionals refuse to work with cassettes is that because the sound quality is beneath them or the challenge of working so fastidiously is above them? Working with cassettes is a bit like playing a few chords on the guitar. It's easy - or easy to do it badly.
Oh and a good sound card is a must too. No fancy software can compensate for poor A/D conversion.
All the best, Tim
 
Yamaha KX580SE

I use a YAMAHA KX580 SE. It has Dolby B,C, and S. Dolby S is very good, there is no hiss, if recorded and played back with this. All the Dolby can be switched off. The machine also has a system for boosting, and reducing the top end treble when playing back old, dull sounding tapes.
Mike. UK.
 
Tim Gillett said:
I suspect the average person has been conned into thinking ...
What's "average person"? Sombody bellow the level of Tim Gillett? How low bellow? Way low? just a little under? or so damn low that being a Tim Gillett is Space-Like-Lonesome in this world? ;)

Tim Gillett said:
The real pro's know this ....
Do they? Really?
Tim Gillett said:
...but the message doesnt seem to have filtered through.
The message? From ? To? ... :confused:
I'll take it as "a message from them to us ;) . Hmmmmm. There gotta be a reason for it. Maybe that's because when you are so high above the "average" it takes too long for the message to travel... not to mention all the obstacles on the way.
***********

BTW, to translate the message to an average person's language:
a casstte player is an electromechanical device. If the cassette player is mechanically or electrically or both f*cked up - the playback of a cassette on that cassette player is f*cked up as well.
Got it? :D
If you get it, then you can feel like a Real Pro now :p

/respects
 

Attachments

  • real_pro.webp
    real_pro.webp
    41.4 KB · Views: 92
To Dr Zee, By real pro's I mean people who know what they're doing, nothing more. They may or may not have any formal qualifications in the area. I dont BTW. What I said was not rocket science but the basics -like servicing the deck- that can easily be forgotten.
No disrespect to the average person meant and I'm sure no offence taken. The average person doesnt pretend to be an expert in this area. I was not having a go at anyone in particular. Amazing how one can see offence where there's nothing there to be offended at. I'll be reading more of Dr Zee to check if that's his usual form.


I was partly reponding to all those members who seemed to imply it was all a matter of having the "right" brand or model machine machine as well as the "right" brand or model software. I stand by that.
I would have thought someone might have said that before me.
 
The original poster was looking for brands. I don't think anyone expected him to by a broken one. :D
 
Tim Gillett said:
By real pro's I mean people who know what they're doing, nothing more. .
I understand. And, so the "average" ones are those who don't know what they are doing. Right? I guess, - right, since they are conned into thinking something that real pros know is NOT so, while the "revealing message" seems to have a real hard time getting through. :D
Being an average one myself, I took no offense. There's nothing offensive here. So no offense was taken. What you see is rather a response with a big ear-to-ear lip stretch to what have been said :D
...and, yest, it IS my usual form :p

/respects
 
I do wish to differ with CJacek on the use of the cassette-based de-magnitizer. I realize that the full-on wand version has more power, but in the years I have used the cassette, I maintained good high-frequency response on what was a very busy and well-used deck, not just for consumer listening.

Best,
C.
 
Cosmic said:
I do wish to differ with CJacek on the use of the cassette-based de-magnitizer. I realize that the full-on wand version has more power, but in the years I have used the cassette, I maintained good high-frequency response on what was a very busy and well-used deck, not just for consumer listening.

Best,
C.

It really has nothing to do with "power" but rather the cassette based demager can leave your heads more magnetized than before, bringing with it the typical symptoms of a magnetized transport. Even a cheap wand type can properly do the job if you bring it in slowly and take it away slowly and that's the key, obviously some details spared. Point is that the coil in a cassette based demagnetizer cannot move around very much and it cannot be ramped up and down as effectively as you can pull a wand away. It will leave the tape path magnetized.
 
Last edited:
Just caught up with this, and must admit I've skimmed over the thread.

My first reaction is that I'd go for a Tascam 122 mkIII, failing that a 112 or 122 going back in 'mks'. One thing to remember though is that because Tascam were often used in 'pro' environments (running off copies of ads for clients at radio stations, for example) they may well be thrashed to death. The same goes for older semi-pro ones like the Hitachi D-E99.

Because of this, if you're buying second hand a domestic deck less than around 10 years old may actually be better buying and give you a better transfer. Last year I bought a Teac W990RX for emergency programme at a transmitter site, turned out in perfect condition and if our satellite feed drops out the backup programme on chrome tape with dbx actually sounds better on-air than the main feed!

Teac logic decks from the 90's (e.g. V680, W525R etc) were quite nice, but I've never found one of their 'piano key' type mechanical ones that I've liked.

Domestic Sony's from the same era never really impressed me. My W525R always seemed nicer to use than "better" Sony units.

The Tascam 102s (original and mk II) are basically identical to a mid range (not high end) Teac of the same era with rack ears bolted on! Nothing special about them.

Not very PC here but I'd probably not go for anything too much older than 1990. I've used the likes of the Hitachi D-E3, which was a brilliant sounding deck in 1986 but I couldn't wait to see the back of it when I upgraded to a V680. Even older, the Akai GXC46D and similar 70's models were great for their time, but very noisy (hum etc).
 
You might consider checking your local goodwill or thrift store. I found a technics RS-B465 in perfect working order fo $10 a couple of months ago :D and a while ago I saw a microkorg ((3-400 dollar synth) for $15 :eek: I think they thought it was a toy keyboard becuase of its size
 
cassette play only and azimuth

Just to add a clarification to what I said earlier, azimuth in the days when analog tape was the main show in town, was more the preserve of the techs because there was an issue of standardisation. Tapes had to play properly even though they were recorded on any machine anywhere in the country or the world. Azimuth compatibility was an important part of that.

But when you're just replaying an existing tape, perhaps for transfer to CD, there is no longer a compatibility issue between different machines. The only issue is that the play machine is aligned to the tape in question. So you dont need a calibration tape, an oscilloscope, a voltmeter or any other kind of meter. You need your ears and a small screwdriver - or maybe an Allen wrench. Of course knowing WHICH of the two or three screws to adjust helps.
If it's some model Nakamichis you dont even need the screwdriver. It's a front panel control. Even operated from the remote! But that's a rarity.
With the 500 or so tapes discussed by RF soundguy wouldnt it be a shame if the up to 750 hours of material were all transferred at well less than optimum for the sake of not adjusting one knob or screw - which might take all of 10 seconds to do.
That's the point I was trying to make. Maybe 10 second's work for 750 hours of enjoyment. If you're only replaying existing tapes, azimuth is a moveable feast. There is no "right" azimuth calibration, just what sounds best for that tape.
No one is likely to retransfer all that amount of material again in a hurry so why not get it right with the one chance available?
You know azimuth is right when the sound is at its crystal clearest. For the tech heads, it's a bit like overbias at 10khz. You can only know you've got it right by first getting it wrong and then sliding up to the right setting. When azimuth is out of whack, speech can be so muffled it's unintelligible and as for music, well...
Hope this helps even though it wasnt the question RF soundguy was asking.
Tim
 
All right, thank Tim for the advice. Yes, I have a lot of tapes to transfer but I am in no hurry, so learning to adjust the azimuth correctly (for the tape in question) will be one of the first things I do.

Is there a calibration tape I can use while learning?

All, I did order a used Tascam 112mkII. I am looking for an electronics tech to check it out before I put it into use.

What things should I specifically ask to be checked on the unit?

Is there a "Cassette Decks for Dummies" FAQ I should read?

I think I'll also get a demag wand. Is there any particular one that's better? I see some on Ebay for $25 new, a small expense considering the scope of this project.

Tim, as for the soundcard, I have a Tascam FW-1884 digital board. The A/D converters in it are great. I am looking for a dedicated 2-channel A/D converter with ADAT Lightpipe output. If I find one I might use that instead.

I've done enough computer based recording to know that the old saying holds true -- "Garbage in, garbage out". I'm trying to put filet mignon in and get at least a good prime rib out :)
 
Last edited:
Tim Gillett:... What a brilliant set of opening posts!!

You're already a great asset to this board,... & welcome to the fray!! :eek: ;)
 
Back
Top