HELLLLLP......Hats are too F#@%ing loud

[doulos24]

this has all proably been said, but do this get the balanced sound from the overheads and kick. Play and listen back if the hat is still to lound it has to do with playing more then mic positions etc. lay off the hat or get a smaller hat for recording just my 2 cents

 

[Detroitroadrage]

So, basically, every possible solution you've been given, you have a counter/answer for. It's obvious, you somehow managed to buy the world's loudest pair of hi-hats, considering you've got all the other angles covered.

What the hell do you think I asked for help for? Ive been recording for over 15 years and yes, I have tried most of whats been suggested, so therefore, these "ANGLES" have been "COUNTERED" and "ANSWERED".
Thanks for your time, YOU have been a tremendous help.

I AM kind..........just not your kind.

 

[RAMI]

What the hell do you think I asked for help for? Ive been recording for over 15 years and yes, I have tried most of whats been suggested, so therefore, these "ANGLES" have been "COUNTERED" and "ANSWERED".
Thanks for your time, YOU have been a tremendous help.

I AM kind..........just not your kind.

Awesome, man. Good luck with all that.

 

[BentRabbit]

What the hell do you think I asked for help for? Ive been recording for over 15 years and yes, I have tried most of whats been suggested, so therefore, these "ANGLES" have been "COUNTERED" and "ANSWERED".
Thanks for your time, YOU have been a tremendous help.

I AM kind..........just not your kind.

Well then, it's obvious that it's your drumming technique and not your recording methods or cymbals...

"Aggressive" drummers are recorded successfully all the time and you've been given some great advice from folks who make incredible recordings including some who are incredible drummers as well...

Maybe it's time to start revisiting some of those 'old tricks' and casting out the ones that aren't working...?

 

[NL5]

"Aggressive" drummers are recorded successfully all the time

Yep. aggressive drummers provide for certain challenges, but "balance" is not one of them. As well as the fact that balance can be adjusted to a pretty large degree by mic placement, leaves just one answer - Drum lessons. If the drummer is hitting the hats harder to a degree that they are louder than the other cymbals and drums, no matter the mic position, well, the answer seems pretty clear. (although, I have NEVER heard that happen - EVER - hat's just aren't as loud as a crash IMHO)

 

[NL5]

If you want any useful help, post a minute or so of your drum tracks (all of them), so we can get a better sense of what is going on..,,,,

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

(although, I have NEVER heard that happen - EVER - hat's just aren't as loud as a crash IMHO)

Perhaps not as loud overall, I agree. But because of the higher frequency timbre of the hi hat over your average crash or ride, the hat needs less energy to "stick out" (so to speak). Put another way, play a large-diameter cymbal at, say, 80dB SPL and the hi hat at the same volume, and they will not necessarily sound "balanced", even though their intrinisc SPL is the same.

One of the regulars here, I forget who, has told the story a couple of times about the drummer who's band went in to record at a big boy studio and after sound check the engineer (expereinced and respected) advised he drummer to back off the hats a bit. When the crummer wouldn't (couldn't?) comply, the engineer walked over to the drum set and took the hat stand away altogether.

G.

 

[TeyshaBlue]

Wrong hats for the wrong room. My solution? Nerf drum sticks.

 

[RAMI]

crummer

Hee!

Nerf

Hee!

 

[Yonce N Mild]

Another vote for lightening up on the hat. You're hitting it too hard. If you can't back off try some dampening of some sort.

 

[NL5]

Perhaps not as loud overall, I agree. But because of the higher frequency timbre of the hi hat over your average crash or ride, the hat needs less energy to "stick out" (so to speak). Put another way, play a large-diameter cymbal at, say, 80dB SPL and the hi hat at the same volume, and they will not necessarily sound "balanced", even though their intrinisc SPL is the same.

Hmmmm. I'm not sure I agree. I only have one set of hats here, but even hitting them as hard as I can, the SPL's don't go as high as even a moderate hit on a crash (tested with spl meter), and the fundamental sits much lower on the hats. Granted, these are K hats, but the crash is a K custom dark (if I put the A projection out there, it would be an even bigger blowout). In order to get them to feel the same volume, I had to really lay off on the crashes, and REALLY lay into the hats - to the point I was starting to worry I would break them.

Maybe someone else with a drumset laying around could try it? I'm just going off my experience, but I just can't imagine a drummer being that bad.

 

[ObiAudio.com]

Not to be a smart ass but I would have asked the drummer to take it easy on the hats....

 

[Grape]

Maybe this guy's just bored. He's disrespecting us while we offer advice.
If it's been 15 years of you recording, how have you not encountered a problem like this before?

I'd suggest re-doing the entire thing if the hi-hats ARE that loud.
Examples? mp3s?

 

[Detroitroadrage]

If you want any useful help, post a minute or so of your drum tracks (all of them), so we can get a better sense of what is going on..,,,,

Here are the original DRY (O.H. only) tracks of a song in progress http://www.pykor.com/O.H.html
Kind of a long track but shows the hat issue in question. For the first 2 min. or so, I am on the right side hat, after that I alter back and forth from left to right hats for the rest of the song. I could post the Mixed/Mastered drum tracks of all 12 tracks if needed. Thanks.

 

[Detroitroadrage]

Not to be a smart ass but I would have asked the drummer to take it easy on the hats....

I am the drummer and have tried to control my aggressivness as much as I can. I just post audio example above. check it out.

 

[NL5]

Here are the original DRY (O.H. only) tracks of a song in progress http://www.pykor.com/O.H.html
Kind of a long track but shows the hat issue in question. For the first 2 min. or so, I am on the right side hat, after that I alter back and forth from left to right hats for the rest of the song. I could post the Mixed/Mastered drum tracks of all 12 tracks if needed. Thanks.

I'm going to try and say this as politely as possible. Your micing technique is terrible. Can you post a pic of how you have the kit mic'd? Maybe a few pics?

Your whole kit sounds like it's to the left. Also, it sounds like the OH's are out front of the kit. Almost like room mic's that are pointed to the right. Really odd IMHO.

The fact that the ride is so loud is even more odd. It's the one cymbal I find I need to close mic sometimes. Is the right hand (A.P.) mic right next to the hats/ride?

 

[Detroitroadrage]

Maybe this guy's just bored. He's disrespecting us while we offer advice.
If it's been 15 years of you recording, how have you not encountered a problem like this before?

I'd suggest re-doing the entire thing if the hi-hats ARE that loud.
Examples? mp3s?

I am not bored, and by no means intended on disrespecting any of you. I have always had this issue, but learned to live with it over the years. I came accross this forum and decided to throw the question out there.

 

[RAMI]

OK, thanx for keeping this civilized, Detroit. You could have gotten defensive and nasty, thinking people are ganging up on you. I think most of us just weren't sure where you coming from (aside from Detroit, that is. )

About your drum clip. I agree with NL5. There's something weird going on. The snare is WAY off center, and very much to the left. How do you have the overheads positioned?

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Hmmmm. I'm not sure I agree. I only have one set of hats here, but even hitting them as hard as I can, the SPL's don't go as high as even a moderate hit on a crash (tested with spl meter), and the fundamental sits much lower on the hats.

That's just what I'm saying, NL, though I probably didn't explain it that well. Your measurement proves it to the extreme; that hats just don't need to generate the SPL that the other brass does in order to provide a balanced sound - and in fact have trouble getting that loud anyway.

Put simply, there's no need to hit a hat as hard. And that fact shows up on recordings much more honestly than it does when swinging the lumber.

The lower fundamental surprises me - then agian I rarely work with Animal from the Muppets, I'm used to hats being played more gently. I could be wrong there too, but it seems to me than when most of what you have coming out of a hat is sizzle and not clang, that it's going to shift the forments upward.

G.

 

[Detroitroadrage]

I'm going to try and say this as politely as possible. Your micing technique is terrible. Can you post a pic of how you have the kit mic'd? Maybe a few pics?

Your whole kit sounds like it's to the left. Also, it sounds like the OH's are out front of the kit. Almost like room mic's that are pointed to the right. Really odd IMHO.

The fact that the ride is so loud is even more odd. It's the one cymbal I find I need to close mic sometimes. Is the right hand (A.P.) mic right next to the hats/ride?

It is off center sounding to keep the left and right hats ballanced. I do this so during post, I have ballance control with all the cymbals. I am able to make a decent balanced master from all the panning adjustments on the individual tracks.
As for pics, I do not have the kit mic'ed up at the moment. I plan on tracking this weekend and will snap some pics then.

Positioning of the mic's are in front of the kit by about 2ft. and above the front crashes about 3ft. This is the only position I have found that decreases the hat volume, any other placement just worsens the problem.

Has any one here have an opinion/history on dedicated mics for cymbals without any O.H.'s. If so, what are the pro's and con's?