HELLLLLP......Hats are too F#@%ing loud

D

Detroitroadrage

New member
Every time I record my drums, I end up with too much Hi-hat in my overheads. During mixdown, I almost always end up not even using the Hi-Hat track in the mix because I get enough from the overhead tracks. (sometimes too much). I have tried SEVERAL overhead and Hi-Hat micing techniques but end up with different versions of the same problem.
I am an aggressive player and already reduced my stick size to just thicker than toothpicks. Also forced myself to hit lighter on open-hat beats, and thats just a shitty feeling. Even went as far as recording an entire song with closed-hats, and re-recording a solo open-hats track after,..... well lets just say I am not proud for even admitting that I did that. I have used high-dollar pencil condenser mics and large diaphragm mics as overheads, and even used SM-57(x5) as overheads just for experimental purposes and that worked better but made my cymbals sound lifeless.

.....any suggestions??????
 
What overhead configuration do you use??? Try the Recorderman and the Glyn Johns method if you haven't yet. There's nothing wrong with not micing the hi-hat. I don't find it neccassary, personally.
 
Whenever I have a mic on a hat, it's either just to capture a tiny bit of extra sizzle, or I'm tracking a jazz band.

That said - There are some awful sounding / loud hats out there... Some are great for live use and - just forget it in the studio...
 
Detroitroadrage said:
I am an aggressive player [who] also forced myself to hit lighter on open-hat beats, and thats just a shitty feeling.
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A big part of the truth is, that if you're going to beat the shit out of the hats, they are going to scream like they are having the shit beat out of them, and that's going to show up on the recording. It also means that the chances of your needing a dedicated mic for the hat is probably close to nil. Personally, unless I'm recording a piano bar jazz-style where the drummer is using only brushes to tickle the hat and snare, I find the use of a hi-hat mic to be an exercise in little more than self-flagellation.

Take your ya-yas out on a punching bag and lay off the hat a bit, and try Rami's suggestion for the snare-symmetrical OH technique to help balance the OHs. And if you don't need the hat mic, that's just one more mic you can use elsewhere where it's actually needed.

G.
 
RAMI said:
What overhead configuration do you use??? Try the Recorderman and the Glyn Johns method if you haven't yet. There's nothing wrong with not micing the hi-hat. I don't find it neccassary, personally.
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Ive tried both methods but lean more towards the Recorderman for the fact that it makes my toms sound more natural to MY ears. All toms are individually mic'ed that I use a VERY slight flange on, and the overheads give me the natural reverb. Together, my toms sound freakin awsome, but altering setup to comp for Hi-Hat issue, I lose my tom sound.

Thanks for ALL the responses guys.
 
Massive Master said:
Whenever I have a mic on a hat, it's either just to capture a tiny bit of extra sizzle, or I'm tracking a jazz band.

That said - There are some awful sounding / loud hats out there... Some are great for live use and - just forget it in the studio...
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Granted they are loud, obviously, but out of the 4 sets of high-grade hats, these (Zildjian A Rock) seem to sound the best (very rich and dynamic) with my kit/cymbal setup for the type of stuff I play (rock/metal). I love the sound I get from them live and recorded, just a volume issue. As you mentioned, I may have to switch to a less desireable set of hats for tracking, and hope for the best in post.
 
Have you tried spaced pair? Raise them up, till the balance is right.

Plus, the drummer just HAS to be more consistent. :D
 
Detroitroadrage said:
Thats like telling a guitar player to strum only one sting lighter than the other 5 or 6. forgive me, I am an old dog and dont take to new tricks very well, haha.
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Hey, I'm turning 50 later this year, so I know all about the old dog thing :( ;) :D

Actually there is an analogy with guitar and recording, especially in the aggressive rock genres. One of the mantras that the recording newbs keep hearing here (from a lot more people than me) is that when recording their walls of distorted, sustained guitar, that more often than not they really need to use less amp gain (and less resulting distortion) than they are used to using and used to thinking sounds good when they play live. The results wind up sounding like the same amount of gain/distortion they are used to. But if they use as much as they are used to, the recording sounds up sounding muddy.

It's similar with "aggressive" drums in many cases, especially with the hi hat and cymbals; what sounds good on the throne or even in the audience when playing live at 120dB SPL is not necessarily what translates best to a recording, even with the best mics and techniques. Professional studio cats can spend entire careers learning the nuanced differences between playing for a live audience and playing for a studio recording, and this is true for everything from acoustic guitar technique to banging on the drum all day.

It may not feel right to you at first, but you just may find that when recording, if you throttle the brass hits just a bit that your recordings might actually improve.

Just an idea...

G.
 
how do you mic your snare. I always place my snare mix under the hihats towards the snare about 2"off snare rim,then use seperate hihat mic,never had a problem.Overhead mic positon can come into place but I find people that tend to mic a snare more from the front run into this problem
 
jmorris said:
how do you mic your snare. I always place my snare mix under the hihats towards the snare about 2"off snare rim,then use seperate hihat mic,never had a problem.Overhead mic positon can come into place but I find people that tend to mic a snare more from the front run into this problem
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Excellent point. If your getting hihat in the snare, then you're pretty well screwed from the get go.
 
i boost cymbals in the high mids so try cutting that, also theirs dampening kits so your hi hat will be more quiet when hit
 
I rarely run into issues with my hats. In fact, they are usually too quiet, if I wanted a really loud washed out hat passage, I'd have to lay into them quite a bit. For someone like me, who plays mostly classic rock style stuff, then a hat mic would work.

But yeah, most people bash the shit out of their hats, it throughs recording balance out of the window.
 
I just think your mics are giving the hi-hats too much attention.
Are your mics right above your hi-hat? If so, then place them further away from the hi-hat and closer towards your cymbals.

Also, make sure your snare mic doesn't catch noise from the hi-hat so much.
Simply cup the snare mic with a dixie cup or something like it.

<33 Grape
 
Another point we may be overlooking is the actual space you are recording in. If you recording in a treated room or your garage might influence your sound:)
 
jmorris said:
how do you mic your snare. I always place my snare mix under the hihats towards the snare about 2"off snare rim,then use seperate hihat mic,never had a problem.Overhead mic positon can come into place but I find people that tend to mic a snare more from the front run into this problem
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The problem is in the overhead mics, not the snare mic, thanks.
 
Grape said:
I just think your mics are giving the hi-hats too much attention.
Are your mics right above your hi-hat? If so, then place them further away from the hi-hat and closer towards your cymbals.

Also, make sure your snare mic doesn't catch noise from the hi-hat so much.
Simply cup the snare mic with a dixie cup or something like it.

<33 Grape
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I have the o.h.'s positioned 3-4ft above the front in a way that direct projection is blocked from crashes and splashes.
 
timvdwest said:
Another point we may be overlooking is the actual space you are recording in. If you recording in a treated room or your garage might influence your sound:)
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I record in my basement with untreated walls/floor, very live sounding from all the concrete. Ive tried recording upstairs in a carpeted-drywalled room with the same results.
 
So, basically, every possible solution you've been given, you have a counter/answer for. It's obvious, you somehow managed to buy the world's loudest pair of hi-hats, considering you've got all the other angles covered.
 
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