"Heavy" guitar sound

  • Thread starter Thread starter Nilbog
  • Start date Start date
hetfield from metallisuck would layer up to 16 tracks on the older stuff. but not with out a compromise the bass tracks were mid ranged becuase the guitars were so thick and bottom endy. in your case 30 tracks of a gutar coming out of that amp will probably still sound thin. I would try using a condenser mike in the middle of the room move it all around till you find the sweet spot and use an sm57 or a 58 with the ball removed miked in close crank your little amp piss off the nieghbors and phatten your tracks!! you can buy a cheap condenser from radio shack that sounds pretty good for the price grab a pair there great over heads on drums they also sound about as good as a set of senhiesers couldnt believe it my self but they do. optimus unidirectional 33-3017 good luck
 
definetly go with the POD. Even if you want to use your effects, just set it to the tube preamp setting, and what you hear is what'll record. it is a great piece of equipment.

>>>mike
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gonzo7:
Hey Nilbog,
I tend to disagree with the technique of laying down multiple tracks over and over. This is good but 4 me it tends to soften(or give a stereo chorus effect) the sound. What I like to do is keep the amp turned down and double mic, one on the edge of the speaker the other towards the center of the speaker. The reason I dont like the amp full blast is that you may lose head room. Ive tried 3 mics and 4 but found that 2 is the best for me. Good luck.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You find that recording multiple tracks softens your sound?? Wow, now that's the first time I've heard that one. Are you paning your guitars left and right? If not, that will give you a "chorus" effect. I've never heard from anyone and I've never experienced softening to the music if I douple a rythm guitar. Recording multiple guitars all of a sudden puts your CD above those guys who went into a studio to record a demo of their band and they just didn't know any better so they recorded exactly what each musician does live. If you want to add a bit of proffesionalism to your sound, at least TRY recording multiple guitars, and don't forget to pan them. I still remember the first time I tried it... I hit play, and heard the sound coming from the speakers and got a HUGE smile on my face and just sat amazed at the sound I was hearing.
 
Here's a (possibly) forgotten guitar recording technique: I remember Joe Perry talking years ago about recording Toys in the Attic era Aerosmith guitars. He said they often recorded with the amp set really low. If you listen to "Walk this Way" the guitar has a really thimpin' quality to it. This should make sense when you think about it because as you turn your amp up it invariably starts to compress (gain does the same thing, right?) Also if you listen to some of the classic AC/DC recordings you'll find that they were using WAY less distortion than you may remember. Because it sounds ROCKIN' we tend to associate that with more distortion (or overdrive), but once I applied this kind of reasoning to guitar recording I started to get some amazing results. I set my Marshall JMP really low...that point where it JUST starts to make sound and lo and behold...BIG GUITAR SOUND!! I also used to subscribe to the many many tracks thing (a la Boston) but when I heard RHCP's "Californication" CD I noticed that they were using a minimunm of tracks and it sounded great. I tried that and it's a great alternative to using lots of guitar tracks...you just have to play a lot more accurately since you no longer have the law of averages on your side.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nikki7:
when I heard RHCP's "Californication" CD I noticed that they were using a minimunm of tracks and it sounded great.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think their new album sounds SO dull compared to their last one. All the songs are good starts, much like Creed (which I also think sounds very thin) but none of the songs are like One Hot Minute. Their last guitarist knew what he was doing, and their producer knew what he was doing. This old/new guitar player just doesn't do it for me.

:) That's my two cents worth on that... sorry if I offended anyone...
 
I don't have the best equipment in the world, and it sounds like the original posters doesn't either, but it gets the job done. Here's how I beef up my sound.

Let's face it, doing a bunch of overdubs on a cassette four track isn't a good idea. All that ping ponging will generate your sound, leading to shitty sounding masters (but you knew that already). When I record a heavy song, I need a thick fatty boomin' sound on the one track. And I get it, but now without some noodling.

1) I only own a Samick LS-31 Fat Strat copy. Killer tone, it doesn't have.

I usually set this to use either, the neck pick-up (deep rich sound), or the top and the middle (deep rich, and versitile sound).

I have some crazy assed economy duncan pick-ups on my guitar, and they sound nice. My body, I believe is made of a composite (english: particle, or plywood), so the sound isn't as rich as a solid wood.

But if you've got a Fender Deluxe Fat Strat (send it to me), a Les Paul (I agree, nice heavy tone, or any Epiphone made of Korina, you'll get a fuller tone. Korina guitars sound nicer and fuller than any guitar I've ever played in my life.

2) My amp is a Peavey Rage 15 watt. Sure, it's not a tube, but it still sounds surprisingly full for a solid state.

If you've got better, you're damn lucky.

3) Now the secert to my full tone is my DOD TEC4X multi-effects unit.

Adding in just the right amount of DELAY and setting the tone right (I usually go Low cranked, Mid almost nil, and high almost cranked). A kiss of reverb also helps my toneless ass.

4) If you've got the scratch or the bones (money) to fling (buy) a few different sets of strings, do it. Find a set that sounds nice to you. Old strings lack the tone you need.
 
I tried what Nikki7 suggested with low amp volume and a POD. I did a comparison plugging the POD directly into a Gadgetlabs card and then plugged the POD into a little Peavey, miked it into an Art dual MP, and then into the card. The latter sounded better to me. I think I'll try it again with a split before the POD so a can run it parallel with another amp and mic, a Rocktron Sustainer and a quadraverb with a very short one hit repeat, and put each one on a separate track which would be 4 tracks if I use the stereo outs on the POD and Quadraverb. That should make it sound pretty phat.

[This message has been edited by monty (edited 07-31-2000).]
 
I'm curious about this doubling tracks on recordings. Is this something that only home studios do to fatten tracks ? Do the big
pro studios do this too, or do they have equipment to fatten their track ?

Thanks
 
15 tracks from the same guitarist doing the exact same rythm track will most likely lead to less definition than only two tracks.

Remember that most "heavy" guitars are dependent on lower frequencies, especially if there is a lot of palm muting going on.

Though you can eq more bass into a close mic'd guitar track, I would suggest using a close mic' and a room mic, maybe putting the room mic(a condenser) 6ft away from the amp and maybe 5 feet in the air. This should allow the lower frequency wave form to develop further before a mic is picking it up.


just a thought.
 
to come back with the 'californication' issue: I think that album sounds great, and not dull at all, and the sounds have everything to do with it. I've read in sound on sound that they mixed a DI and a miced amp for the bass sounds.

And indeed, layering the guitar tracks won't help for a Peppers-song, but for other songs it can indeed work tremendously.

Greetings!

Brett
 
a little off subject, but I think every peppers song sound exactly the same.
 
Johnboy...whatever happened to Musicmanx? He was such a dork and you seem like a pretty reasonable human. Doesn't compute. Jekyl and Hyde?

[This message has been edited by monty (edited 07-31-2000).]
 
Musicmanx is dead. I was feeling a little persecuted by you guys, and have never backed down from a fight, but I guess its more important to me to further my creative endeavors than to argue.

No Jekyll and Hyde at all. Would you agree that most good people will lash out when they feel ganged up on?

I am definitely not saying I think I was right though.

I feel I can contribute positively to this site and learn some cool stuff too!
 
To answer the question posed a few posts back... you'll find that generally most metal bands for the last 15-20 years would layer at least 4 rhythm tracks - 2 per side - some times more. I agree that the more tracks you do the less defined it can sound but this largely depends on your ability to play a riff with EXACTLY the same phrasing. I always do at least 4 and where I think it needs it 6... anything more than that and my sound becomes a bit lose.
 
Nilbog,
I don't know if you've heard this one, but in some of my first eletric guitar recordings, I had only two mics. An SM-57 and a CAD E-100(large diaphragm). I miked the front with the condenser in a spot that I felt got a good warm and clear tone and I stuck the 57 in the back aimed at the speaker where the cabinet opened(open back). Also, I want to remind you that this was a fat tube combo I was miking. I mixed the two signals before sending them to a channel to record. Now, when I played this back, the sound was so thick... And it was only one guitar. I hind sight I would recommend doing this and overdubbing your "thin guitar sound," no matter what you think of it right now. The two mixed, I think, would give you exactly what you're looking for(one thick, individual guitar). If you're trying to bombard the listener, have a second couple of tracks and pan your "individual" guitars left and right. Not too hard, though. I really enjoyed the sound when I did this.
 
One more thing, it helps if the bass guitar in your recording is really tight with the guitar.
 
have u tried panning?

u don't need to max your amp, with a 15w it'll just get muddy. try putting one mic really close and panning it to the right, give it alot of treble and low mid, and put one mic farther back, pan it to the left, and give it all the bass and hi mid. it takes two inputs, but if u have room, it works - and it sounds great.
or u could just get a chorus pedal.
 
Several guys have mentioned going direct with the POD.
I still prefer to mic the cab, but if you decide to go direct, you might want to give the Johnson J-Station a try. I like most of the J-Station's emulations and tones just a little better than the POD.
Compare them head to head and see what you like better.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top